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Addressing Spotify’s Claims

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Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#501

Post by Gaelan »

segphault wrote: post #7

> Underneath the rhetoric, Spotify’s aim is to make more money off others’ work. And it’s not just the App Store that they’re trying to squeeze — it’s also artists, musicians and songwriters. Uh, I seem to recall Apple being forced to reverse some brazenly greedy policies for their music service when a high-profile artist called them out and withheld content in protest. For Apple to characterize itself as a champion…

For context: Apple's original plan was that artists would get no royalties from users using Apple Music's (3-month) trial. Taylor Swift threatened to (maybe actually did for a bit?) pull her music, and Apple backed down.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#502

Post by arsenico »

rhodysurf wrote: post #426
simonh wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a thread of truth in what you’re saying, but it unravels on close inspection. Proprietary cables are hardly new, and to be fair those cables and connectors are usually way better than the standard stuff. Firewire and thunderbolt were actually released as open standards and saw decent adoption. Lightning is far superior to Micro-USB. Just listen to the wailing and gnashing of teeth by Macbook owners having to…

XCode is free and has been for ages. To this day you can develop whatever you like for the Mac and not pay Apple a penny. You don’t even have to use XCode to do it. It’s even free for iPhone development for your own device now, though you have to pay a fee to publish stuff. I’m not sure what you comment about emulators is about to be honest, The iOS emulator for the Mac is free. True it is all free except the whole h…

This is incorrect - you can go and buy a used Mac Mini for 250USD.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#504

Post by kevin_b_er »

exwiki wrote: post #4

> Spotify wouldn’t be the business they are today without the App Store ecosystem, but now they’re leveraging their scale to avoid contributing to maintaining that ecosystem for the next generation of app entrepreneurs. We think that’s wrong. I think that's a very hypothetical claim. > Let’s be clear about what that means. Apple connects Spotify to our users. We provide the platform by which users download and update…

> And we built a secure payment system — no small undertaking — which allows users to have faith in in-app transactions.

Which you mandate Spotify uses. This isn't an enumerable benefit to Spotify, it is the lock-in mechanism that makes the Apple Tax work.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#505

Post by dalore »

throwawaymath wrote: post #484
aqme28 wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spotify wants a lower $ charge. Apple owns the platform and controls that access and $ charge. That's it. I think that's an oversimplification. When you control the platform and then use that control to favor your own products on that platform, that's anti-competitive.

It's anticompetitive, but is it illegal? Is it unethical? Does Apple's favoritism of its own products on its platform mean competing products cannot exist on the platform, or that they're less capable/visible? There are many platforms which rigidly control what's allowed on it. For example, is Netflix comparable? Netflix can control which providers are represented on its platform.

Some markets it might be illegal, like in the EU.

Netflix isn't comparable as you can choose any other content streaming services. And also you can use any ISP to access to Netflix.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#506

Post by ppeetteerr »

weavejester wrote: post #479
supernova87a wrote: post #438

As with so many matters that involve money, arguments fly around left and right that claim to be on principle, but really aren't. When you see ESPN and Comcast argue over showing the World Series, don't buy the argument that one of them is "trying to prevent loyal customers from being able to see their favorite game", or when your local hospital group withdraws from your employer health plan that "the other side is t…

" There's no public right to have a music app be charged a certain amount that's called "fair". Spotify could charge nothing to consumers, and be charged nothing by Apple. It's their choice. It's Apple's choice." Competition laws place limitations on what a business can do. They're not free to sell or price entirely as they please. In this case Spotify are arguing that Apple is using its dominance of the smartphone m…

I keep hearing this but it doesn't make it true: Apple does not have dominance in the smartphone market. It barely reaches 20% of the smartphone market in the EU.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#507

Post by ppeetteerr »

revel wrote: post #361

I love how brazen this letter is. > Apple’s approach has always been to grow the pie. Apple's approach has always been to grow it's own pie. They have never been even remotely interested in playing nicely with other companies. I don't fault them for it, but let's not kid ourselves here; the app store is largely an extremely profitable exercise in rent seeking. It's not like this is new for Apple; they've had propriet…

> Literally every other platform has given away tooling and emulators

That's so wrong. Try building a game for any console and see how far that assumption will take you.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#508

Post by dalore »

hellisothers wrote: post #464
rhodysurf wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XCode is free and has been for ages. To this day you can develop whatever you like for the Mac and not pay Apple a penny. You don’t even have to use XCode to do it. It’s even free for iPhone development for your own device now, though you have to pay a fee to publish stuff. I’m not sure what you comment about emulators is about to be honest, The iOS emulator for the Mac is free. True it is all free except the whole h…

This is a disingenuous argument, you have to buy a PC to develop Windows. And you have to pay $100-300 for windows, AND you have to play $600-$2500 _per year_ for Visual Studio

No it's not. You can buy a PC from many different vendors, HP, Lenevo, Dell etc. They compete and the price goes down, and customers get a choice. You can also run linux for free and use VSCode for free which also runs on Linux.

With Apple I have to buy the PC from Apple at it's marked up price since no competition. So it is a fair point.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#509

Post by FireBeyond »

ppeetteerr wrote: post #506
weavejester wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" There's no public right to have a music app be charged a certain amount that's called "fair". Spotify could charge nothing to consumers, and be charged nothing by Apple. It's their choice. It's Apple's choice." Competition laws place limitations on what a business can do. They're not free to sell or price entirely as they please. In this case Spotify are arguing that Apple is using its dominance of the smartphone m…

I keep hearing this but it doesn't make it true: Apple does not have dominance in the smartphone market. It barely reaches 20% of the smartphone market in the EU.

It's not about how much dominance it has. It treats its own music platform differently (not subject to Apple Store fees) than any other music platform.

Like Microsoft bundling/treating IE differently to any other browser on its platform.

Re: Addressing Spotify’s Claims

#510

Post by lwansbrough »

ppeetteerr wrote: post #506
weavejester wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" There's no public right to have a music app be charged a certain amount that's called "fair". Spotify could charge nothing to consumers, and be charged nothing by Apple. It's their choice. It's Apple's choice." Competition laws place limitations on what a business can do. They're not free to sell or price entirely as they please. In this case Spotify are arguing that Apple is using its dominance of the smartphone m…

I keep hearing this but it doesn't make it true: Apple does not have dominance in the smartphone market. It barely reaches 20% of the smartphone market in the EU.

Not sure why you’d use the EU as the market indicator. They dominate North America, which is where the biggest market is. In the EU, they are the second largest behind Samsung but it’s close and they change spots from time to time.
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