Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#61

Post by mindgam3 » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:16 PM UTC

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote:

“For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders we must endeavor to understand its impact — all the good, and all the bad — and take up the daily work of bending it towards the positive, and towards the good.”

“This is our greatest responsibility,” he added.'

When the Chief Product Officer says on his way out that "social media is not neutral" and encourages all employees to bend it towards the good... you barely have to read between the lines to understand what's really happening.

The real story here isn't the "spin" from the NYT. It's the fact that Facebook is hemorrhaging its best people as those on the inside finally start waking up to the fact that Zuckerberg's vision of Facebook as a good thing for the world was a lie.

If the guy who is officially in charge of product and who has been there since 2005 can't make a difference, what chance does anyone else have?

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/technology/facebook-chris...

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#62

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:16 PM UTC

ilovecaching wrote: post #41

hashberry wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some theories: 1. Rebranding Facebook as secure and private 2. If this increases usage, more opportunity to display ads 3. Their data shows they gain more information by monitoring what people publicly share, not say in private 4. Removes all responsibility to work with law enforcement and governments for illegal activity, since it's encrypted

Could you ever consider that Zuck has enough money, and that he really believes in making a product to connect people for the greater good and use ads to make it available to everyone?

Not a chance. I'd trust him about as far as I could throw him. If there is one exec of a major web property that has lost all benefit of the doubt then it is Mark Zuckerberg.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#63

Post by dang » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:16 PM UTC

hashberry wrote: post #16

Interesting spin from the NYTimes ("Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox"[0]): "The departures follow two years of scandals for Facebook around data privacy and disinformation. The issues have buffeted the Silicon Valley company, causing internal turmoil and a redirection in strategy." [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/technology/facebook-chris...

I've tentatively switched to that URL from https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/03/a-note-from-mark-zucker.... If someone can suggest a better article, we'll happily change it again.

Generally, corporate press releases don't make for great HN stories. This is a bit of an exception to the original-sources rule in the site guidelines.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#64

Post by dontbenebby » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #24

I just don't understand how anyone can believe his vision for "a privacy-focused social network" is even possible this late in the game. There is too much money riding precisely on the reductions of privacy Facebook has enabled for this to be realistic anymore. The ad dollars come from knowing you, not concealing you. Plus, once you're a public company, the rules change—you have shareholders to honor—and if you got t…

It's perfectly possibly they'll increase privacy, in the sense that instead of blasting updates to everyone you send them to specific people, with an autodelete.

This doesn't interfere with tracking.

Most people, when they think about privacy, think about the disclosure of specific posts to unintended audiences. They often don't think about the tracking beacons silently categorizing everything.

So in short, it's perfectly possible to have "privacy friendly" Facebook - if your definition of privacy doesn't extend to being free from ad trackers.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#65

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

thundergolfer wrote: post #57

na85 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's irreconcilable with his actions. Why would a person who believes those things have made the "dumb fucks" quote?

I'm no fan of Zuckerberg, but he said that quote over a decade ago, and people can change their beliefs and values.

He's done plenty in that decade that affirms the quote.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#66

Post by smrq » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

floatrock wrote: post #47

ilovecaching wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you ever consider that Zuck has enough money, and that he really believes in making a product to connect people for the greater good and use ads to make it available to everyone?

As a person, maybe if I squint very very very hard. Legally, he has a duty to maximize value for his board and investors. And there hasn't been a business model that provides a free consumer web product without monetizing user data.

Why does this shareholder value meme keep getting perpetuated?

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#67

Post by PeterisP » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #24

I just don't understand how anyone can believe his vision for "a privacy-focused social network" is even possible this late in the game. There is too much money riding precisely on the reductions of privacy Facebook has enabled for this to be realistic anymore. The ad dollars come from knowing you, not concealing you. Plus, once you're a public company, the rules change—you have shareholders to honor—and if you got t…

Facebook can easily run "a privacy-focused social network" that's not Facebook, but a separate, very different product for separate, very different audiences.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#68

Post by untog » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

annadane wrote: post #18

hashberry wrote: post #16

Interesting spin from the NYTimes ("Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox"[0]): "The departures follow two years of scandals for Facebook around data privacy and disinformation. The issues have buffeted the Silicon Valley company, causing internal turmoil and a redirection in strategy." [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/technology/facebook-chris...

This is what pisses me off. I'm more than willing to criticize Facebook when they deserve it but IMO the media blitzkrieg has said more about the media than Facebook. Not that FB hasn't done scummy things but my faith in the whole attack angle has been reduced

Why? What level of criticism is acceptable, and what level is not, and why?

This is something I've not really been able to understand about those who defend Facebook against these "attacks". Nothing reported (AFAIK) has been untrue. Facebook is one of the richest and most culturally central companies of the 21st century. It seems fair game to examine what they do.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#69

Post by arunv » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

tyre wrote: post #53

arunv wrote: post #27

Chris Cox is a huge loss for Facebook. His first day speech is still the reason Facebook has the strongest culture in the valley.

> Facebook has the strongest culture in the valley For a company so regularly beset by scandal, this feels like a bold assertion. Culture of what?

Any other company in their shoes would have had a mass exodus. Chris was a big part of making employees feel like they shared a piece of the dream.

Whatever your thoughts about Facebook, the fact that some of the smartest people have worked, and continue to work at a company "beset by scandal" should give you pause.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#70

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

floatrock wrote: post #47

ilovecaching wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you ever consider that Zuck has enough money, and that he really believes in making a product to connect people for the greater good and use ads to make it available to everyone?

As a person, maybe if I squint very very very hard. Legally, he has a duty to maximize value for his board and investors. And there hasn't been a business model that provides a free consumer web product without monetizing user data.

> Legally, he has a duty to maximize value for his board members and investors.

Please stop repeating that nonsense.