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Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

polygon.com

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Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#271

Post by swfsql »

dibujante wrote: post #235
swfsql wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Oof, can you really do an apples-to-apples comparison to healthcare in 1910 (before antibiotics) and healthcare today, though? If healthcare in 1910 cost $1 and a doctor poked you in the chest and said "You've got consumption; get your affairs in order." and healthcare in 2010 cost $1000 and a doctor poked you in the chest and said "You've got tuberculosis; take these antibiotics and you will probably live.", I don't…

As the video stated, we will never know how lodge practice would have developed.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#272

Post by taneq »

Macuyiko wrote: post #155
gotocake wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every friend I’ve turned onto either game was basically lost for months, then returned to the world like a shipwrecked survivor. It was all long beards and uncut hair, wild eyes and impossible tales. These games are so good they should come with rehab.

I wish these games would still have that effect on me. I mean, I can totally see it happening back when I was 20-25 years old. When I try to start factorio, df, rimworld today, I can see the systems, I can feel the ocd style appeal and feedback loops grabbing me, until I realize after one hour that 1) this is just the same as work, 2) someone else has already optimized the crap out of this, better then I'd ever have…

> 1) this is just the same as work

This is how I feel about Factorio along with basically every Zachtronics game ever. I want to get into it but I could literally get paid for doing the same thing. I guess I'm just lucky to be able to do work that I love (or conversely to be built such that I enjoy things that are useful.)

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#273

Post by taneq »

kakarot wrote: post #188
Macuyiko wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish these games would still have that effect on me. I mean, I can totally see it happening back when I was 20-25 years old. When I try to start factorio, df, rimworld today, I can see the systems, I can feel the ocd style appeal and feedback loops grabbing me, until I realize after one hour that 1) this is just the same as work, 2) someone else has already optimized the crap out of this, better then I'd ever have…

This is why, from the beginning, Factorio never appealed to me. I haven't played a single minute of it despite the fact I know I'd be good at it. You may be engineering your own solution, but it's still the solution to someone else's problem. When you win, it's an empty feeling. With respect to sandbox games, games like Minecraft truly offer you unlimited freedom. Minecraft is completely open. You get dropped into a…

I have the same problem with pure sandbox games like Minecraft that I have with engineering games like Factorio. They're close enough to being simulations of the real thing (you can't argue that living on this planet isn't a - sometimes literal - sandbox!) that pretty soon I realise I might as well be putting the same effort into real life and getting tangible rewards.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#274

Post by intended »

shanusmagnus wrote: post #179
Macuyiko wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish these games would still have that effect on me. I mean, I can totally see it happening back when I was 20-25 years old. When I try to start factorio, df, rimworld today, I can see the systems, I can feel the ocd style appeal and feedback loops grabbing me, until I realize after one hour that 1) this is just the same as work, 2) someone else has already optimized the crap out of this, better then I'd ever have…

Thanks for making the connection to work -- I keep having this same thing, all the time, about many endeavors. "If I'm going to invest all this time learning _x_, why don't I spend the same time learning _a real thing_ that can help with my actual life?" On the one hand it sounds like I've become a joyless husk (which may be true.) On the other hand, maybe I should play the larger real-life game that has so much bett…

You guys need to draw a line and realize “this part is fun.” And “this part is work, and I want to imagine it is fun because I get ahead, but honestly it’s not fun but I’m proud/happy of/with myself if I do it.”

Fun is a critical part of life, Its the point of living as Opposed to surviving.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#275

Post by intended »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #171
Macuyiko wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish these games would still have that effect on me. I mean, I can totally see it happening back when I was 20-25 years old. When I try to start factorio, df, rimworld today, I can see the systems, I can feel the ocd style appeal and feedback loops grabbing me, until I realize after one hour that 1) this is just the same as work, 2) someone else has already optimized the crap out of this, better then I'd ever have…

I consider this to be healthy. There are real world problems to spend your time on. The real world has achievements to be earned and systems to be optimized. Why not seek those out and end up with something to show for your effort? Nobody is going to lie on their deathbed wishing they had played more factorio.

Many many people will wish that, as opposed to having done better at work.

People will regret missed relationships, events, risks not taking and trips not made.

You’d regret dying without having done anything you really wanted to do.

And observably - very few people truly have their joy aligned with their productive employment.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#276

Post by rjbwork »

danso wrote: post #150
rjbwork wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love RimWorld, and have hundreds of hours in it, but I'd say it's really more like Babby's First DF game than truly comparable to DF. It just doesn't have the depth, or capability to present a deep challenge forever. It also takes place in a single layer, whereas DF has gobs of layers.

Same. I haven’t played DF nearly as many hours as Rimworld, but I can still grok that DF contains far more surprises and emergent gameplay. That said, Rimworld has proven to me how useful a pleasant GUI can be. Even though the gameplay loops are ultimately very predictable I’m always surprised at how I can get sucked into a session with it’s relaxing rythyms.

That is a really good point. Rimworld has a predictable and fairly simple loop, but it's a good one, and the UI lets you easily and fully manage everything and react to situations appropriately.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#277

Post by Mr_Shiba »

Sargos wrote: post #113
umvi wrote: post #35

One thing that amazes me about Dwarf Fortress is that the creator(s) don't use version control[1] (as of 2014, things may have changed): "I don't use version control -- I didn't like the feeling of having the code get committed into a black box thingy with no immediate upside." I can't fathom how you can manage the complexity of a game like DF without a VCS. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1avszc/im_tarn_a…

Tarn isn't known for being a good developer. He's just very dedicated :) In fact it's pretty well known that Dwarf Fortress has a horrible code base and it would be a huge project to bring it up to a good standard.

> Tarn isn't known for being a good developer. He's just very dedicated :)

Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration - Thomas Edison.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#278

Post by flukus »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #171
Macuyiko wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish these games would still have that effect on me. I mean, I can totally see it happening back when I was 20-25 years old. When I try to start factorio, df, rimworld today, I can see the systems, I can feel the ocd style appeal and feedback loops grabbing me, until I realize after one hour that 1) this is just the same as work, 2) someone else has already optimized the crap out of this, better then I'd ever have…

I consider this to be healthy. There are real world problems to spend your time on. The real world has achievements to be earned and systems to be optimized. Why not seek those out and end up with something to show for your effort? Nobody is going to lie on their deathbed wishing they had played more factorio.

Real world achievements usually require significantly higher time investments with systems that are almost entirely beyond your control (no modding support unfortunately) and having something to show will often result in long term responsibilities, many you will never escape from.

At least with games you can save and quit at any time.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#279

Post by intended »

YukonMoose wrote: post #212

I was consumed by df for about six months to the detriment of everything else. I’ve never been able to go back, but I always remember it as the best gaming I ever did. Df is a piece of art comparable to anything created by mankind to date. In a 1000 years I believe df will be compared with Mozart and the Mona Lisa. And hopefully they’ve improved the efficiency... I want my descendants to be able to build that 1000 dw…

> 1000 dwarf fortress!

What did the sons of today’s processors ever do to you, for you to hate them so?

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#280

Post by DylanDmitri »

mysterydip wrote: post #208
clucas wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this feeling - you're climbing up that hill at the very beginning, trying to figure out the mechanics and what the game is about. Then when you finally crest it, you see the whole game set out before you like a beautiful valley... and you realize, "this is going to take hours and days, and I already understand it." You judge the time required vs. the enjoyment that may be gained, and the game loses. And it's s…

I'd recommend roguelikes in general. Run and done in a sitting, and you can't really optimize the same way as the game has hidden/random elements. Two I'd recommend looking at: FTL and Into the Breach.

I enjoy both of those, but have been playing more Slay the Spire recently. It has wonderful diversity in viable builds, and most runs you end up with something unexpected. A delightful sense of discovery and mastery.
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