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Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

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Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#211
post #40

I always read about Dwarf Fortress in HN and it always interested me. But some elements, like the ASCII art, always seemed to me as entry barriers purposefully built to maintain a protected subculture that I had no interest in being part of. I just wanted to try out a good game. So this comes as good news to me, I'll probably give it a try now with the tile graphics.

To understand DF, you need to understand the the reason that the ASCII art exists is because Tarn is not an artist and decided to prioritise other things. Art was not considered important enough to spend time on. Neither was a consistent UI. Neither was fixing "quality of life" bugs.

This was never an attempt to purposely build a subculture that enjoys puzzling out how to play the game. It's a choice of prioritising the other aspects of the work over these aspects. The people who avidly play DF self-selected by being able to persist through all of the sub-optimal parts to discover the wonderful parts.

Just keep that in mind if you decide to give it a go. I think to enjoy it, you need to have a relaxed attitude. I see a lot of incensed people on the forums who loudly proclaim, "How can you put up with such a crappy game?". The reputation of being the most complex game in the world, or being the hardest game to play is just wrong, unfortunately. People get the idea that there is some benefit to the complexity -- like using Blender or Vim. But there isn't. It's just complex because the work flows have never been thought through that much and there are bugs all over the place.

The reason to play the game is the emergent story telling, for which there is nothing else that even comes close. You persist through the problems, to get to the gems. Maybe some people enjoy the persistence, I don't know, but that's not the point of DF.

Anyway, I hope that puts things into perspective.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#212
I was consumed by df for about six months to the detriment of everything else.

I’ve never been able to go back, but I always remember it as the best gaming I ever did.

Df is a piece of art comparable to anything created by mankind to date. In a 1000 years I believe df will be compared with Mozart and the Mona Lisa.

And hopefully they’ve improved the efficiency... I want my descendants to be able to build that 1000 dwarf fortress!

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Compressed backups of the source and a changelog are very simple, straightforward, and effective on this scale. Too many people in this industry fetishize complexity and end up over-complicating even the smallest things, which might be why they get on the internet and criticize someone like Tarn for not doing so instead of actually creating something worthwhile.

How the heck is that simpler than -- git add . -- git commit -m "I did something" -- git push How???

Because "simple" and "complex" both have two completely different meanings in software engineering. Something can be simple and/or it can be simple to use. Usually they're inversely correlated. You're both working on different definitions of simple.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a disaster to see people so severely affected by the healthcare system in America. If you haven't been keeping track, there's been a similar issue with SomethingAwful's Lowtax, who is deep in debt as a result of some of the medical issues he's going through. It's enough to certainly make me consider working in a different country. I wonder if there would be any possibilities of the Dwarf Fortress developers…

What kind of issues is Lowtax having?

Seems like every week I hear about some horrible thing happening in the US healthcare system that makes me feel both disgusted and very lucky to not have any current health problems.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#215
post #150
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love RimWorld, and have hundreds of hours in it, but I'd say it's really more like Babby's First DF game than truly comparable to DF. It just doesn't have the depth, or capability to present a deep challenge forever. It also takes place in a single layer, whereas DF has gobs of layers.

Same. I haven’t played DF nearly as many hours as Rimworld, but I can still grok that DF contains far more surprises and emergent gameplay. That said, Rimworld has proven to me how useful a pleasant GUI can be. Even though the gameplay loops are ultimately very predictable I’m always surprised at how I can get sucked into a session with it’s relaxing rythyms.

I played DF many years ago when the modding scene was a lot younger and found it’s complexity to be too intimidating. I eventually quit playing after a few weeks because of it.

I’ve been playing the hell out of RimWorld over the past few weeks. It really is a great entry to the kind of game DF is. The creator did a really good job of designing mechanisms to hold your hand in the beginning. The warnings on the right hand side of the screen were a godsend for me picking up RimWorld to make sure that my housekeeping was in enough shape to keep exploring without having an entire colony wipe for some ridiculous reason. It’s made me ready to try to tackle DF again after successfully running colonies in RimWorld.

I suspect someone can mod DF to give the same kind of gentler entry experience (if they haven’t already).

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#216

Another Roguelike game called ADOM that has been around since the 90's was brought to Steam with upgraded assets and sounds a couple years back.

And it highlighted how aged the game was. It's a roguelike masterpiece, but there has been many more playable ones since. DF hasn't aged as badly, but standing up in Steam to more playable games will be challenging.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#217
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obamacare was both sides of the aisle coming together. It's a repackaged version of the proposed Republican 1993 HEART Act (including the individual mandate).

What? Obamacare didn't receive a single republican vote

True - but that is completely independent from the fact that the ACA was the Republican healthcare reform model (see Romneycare). The Republican Party went completely at war against President Obama regardless of whether or not he was proposing solutions they explicitly supported (in the past) or actively designed.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#218
post #38
post #6

> But, in today’s FAQ, the pair said that they’re selling this premium version in part to pay for health care for ailing family members. "Name one positive thing about the US health insurance setup." "Uh... it got us Dwarf Fortress with graphics, I guess?"

DF already has graphical tilesets, right? This is just a packaging of them?

It's an official packaging, and possibly bundled with a UI/UX upgrade.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#219
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a slightly roundabout set of links that tends to become very clear to people paying >40% of their income in taxes. First, some setup: The base case is I think the world needs to change, so I spend 8 hours changing it for the better. The extended case is other people notice I am making the world better, and want to pitch in. We've got this great indirection system in money to allow that to happen with a highly ab…

The problem is that most people act selfishly with that "5 to reshape the world into something you want to live in". The world they want to live in has them lazing on a beach, not providing healthcare for the masses.

The world they want to live in has them lazing on a beach

Far better places to play with a LASER than on a beach.

Re: Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam with graphics

#220
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this feeling - you're climbing up that hill at the very beginning, trying to figure out the mechanics and what the game is about. Then when you finally crest it, you see the whole game set out before you like a beautiful valley... and you realize, "this is going to take hours and days, and I already understand it." You judge the time required vs. the enjoyment that may be gained, and the game loses. And it's s…

I'd recommend roguelikes in general. Run and done in a sitting, and you can't really optimize the same way as the game has hidden/random elements. Two I'd recommend looking at: FTL and Into the Breach.

What roguelikes (beyond maybe Brogue) can you finish in a sitting?
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