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Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

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Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#51

Post by greeneggs »

skookum wrote: post #34
r-s wrote: post #9

Since its a ban on all Canadian airspace, will this effect American flights which pass over Canada? I imagine quite a few flights cross over the southern part of Ontario.

If it were just southern Ontario that would be one thing. Every flight from the US west coast to Europe spends half (from SEA) to a third (from SFO or LAX) of its flight time in Canadian airspace. However all such flights would likely already be affected due to the widespread European bans. I have no idea if any of those routes were served by 737 Max 8s.

There's a great visualization of the routes here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/11/world/boeing-...

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#53

Post by pnathan »

ncr100 wrote: post #29
jdsully wrote: post #19

This goes beyond aircraft at the moment. The NTSB and America in general used to lead. Now it seems the world is going to get on without them.

The US Government is sadly conflicted. FAA claiming there is "no evidence" of this aircraft having a systemic flaw. Meanwhile: Boeing brought $70B into Washington State's economy in one year. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeingrsquos-economic-... Boeing is a major defense contractor, providing transportation, weapons, and other supplies to the US Military.

The conflict of interests here are pretty apparent to a cursory view. Unfortunately.

The right thing to do is ground the plane and figure out a proper remediation going forward.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#54

Post by js2 »

tapland wrote: post #33
js2 wrote: post #20

Having read many commments on HN and elsewhere since the crash, I know I’m in the minority here when I say this but to me it seems like the US airlines and FAA are following their procedures, the same procedures that make the US airlines the safest in the world, while the rest of the world is, I don’t quite want to use the word panicking, but at least giving into pressure from people who aren’t aviation safety expert…

> the same procedures that make the US airlines the safest in the world Citation needed? > Let the downvotes begin. Bracing for impact doesn't invalidate the cause of it.

> Citation needed

You’re probably asking for a citation that the US airlines are safest due to their procedures and not for other reasons. I don’t have a ready citation for that. But as to US airline safety:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2016/12/28/in-the-la...

> Bracing for impact doesn't invalidate the cause of it.

Fair, I should have left that out, but I won’t ninja edit it on you now. (And I have no idea why you’re downvoted. I’ve upvoted your comment.)

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#55

Post by Someone1234 »

js2 wrote: post #20

Having read many commments on HN and elsewhere since the crash, I know I’m in the minority here when I say this but to me it seems like the US airlines and FAA are following their procedures, the same procedures that make the US airlines the safest in the world, while the rest of the world is, I don’t quite want to use the word panicking, but at least giving into pressure from people who aren’t aviation safety expert…

- We have a preliminary report from Lion Air, including a Emergency Airworthiness Directive and a Airworthiness Directive suggesting MCAS (w/faulty single AOA sensor) was closely tied to the accident.

- The Lion Air flight had a certain aerial profile before the crash (a wave, as MCAS fought the pilots).

- The Ethiopian Airlines aircraft has the same tell tale aerial profile

It would be better to have the black box data from Ethiopian Airlines, but the local authorities have said they're going to take weeks. In the meantime given the facts we have, there are reasons to suspect that Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines had a similar cause.

Additionally Boeing has also implicitly admitted there are issues, they're actively working on improvements to MCAS due out in April.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#56

Post by mb101 »

isostatic wrote: post #27
smaili wrote: post #6

It's very possible the "new information" may be what WSJ just reported: https://www.wsj.com/articles/pilot-of-crashed-ethiopian-airl... tldr - The pilot had reported flight-control problems and wanted to return to the airport

Non-paywall: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/13/ethiopian-airl... > The airline is planning to send the 737 Max 8 plane’s flight data recorder to Europe rather than the US for analysis, he said. That seems to be shocking news. Is it that they don't trust the FAA?

Maybe not, but the French also investigated the earlier Beirut crash (also stretched 737 ...), so this seems to be their usual procedure.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#57

Post by JustSomeNobody »

Someone1234 wrote: post #36
whatshisface wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it worrying that it took them so long to come to the obvious conclusion Aviation regulators and internet forums are literally at the opposite end of the spectrum with regards to jumping to conclusions.

That's a truism. You're kind of ignoring their point though, which was that the data existed and was readily available. Internet forums may be "jumping to conclusion" but regulators have had this data for days, and didn't act on it. They only acted after regulators in Europe and elsewhere acted first.

Maybe the operative word is validated, then.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#58

Post by matz1 »

dubbel wrote: post #44
matz1 wrote: post #35

By now its safe to assume that most pilot will know about this specific issue and know how to handle it. Well, except those Ethiopian pilot. I don't see reason to ban.

That feels like average software development mindset applied to airplanes to be honest. An airplane nosediving on sensor malfunction from time to time is not acceptable behavior that could be considered fixed by telling the pilots to disable the autopilot.

Of course the sensor malfunction still need to be fixed but in the meanwhile the workaround can be used.

Re: Canada grounds Boeing 737 Max 8

#59

Post by js2 »

vb6lives wrote: post #45
js2 wrote: post #20

Having read many commments on HN and elsewhere since the crash, I know I’m in the minority here when I say this but to me it seems like the US airlines and FAA are following their procedures, the same procedures that make the US airlines the safest in the world, while the rest of the world is, I don’t quite want to use the word panicking, but at least giving into pressure from people who aren’t aviation safety expert…

They have more than 5000 orders for this model of aircraft. Each one costs approx 120million. Which means there are approx $640 billion dollars on the line. It is imperative that Boeing keeps it's reputation and grounding flights would destroy it.

Another 737 Max crashing in the face of the current scrutiny would destroy it even worse, wouldn’t it? Is that just a calculated gamble?
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