Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 157 posts

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#121

Post by solomatov »

phonon wrote: post #19
burtonator wrote: post #11

My company foolishly donated data to Stanford for nearly a decade. We asked them for an 'in kind' license to OpenNLP and were basically completely rebuffed. They're taking in money hand over fist. We need to stop thinking of these as universities anymore. They're cash cows...

Do you mean https://github.com/stanfordnlp/CoreNLP ? Why would you expect them to relicense GPL libre software to you? What does "in kind" mean?

They mention on their site that they can give it to you under a commercial license. In order to contribute to it, you should follow their CLA: https://github.com/stanfordnlp/CoreNLP/blob/master/CONTRIBUT... which transfers copyright to them.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#122

Post by dakial1 »

massivecali wrote: post #4
resalisbury wrote: post #2

From the article: "It may be legal to pledge $2.5 million to Harvard just as your son is applying — which is what Jared Kushner’s father did for him — and illegal to bribe a coach to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, but how much of a difference is there, really? Both elevate money over accomplishment."

The first is for the benefit of all the other students in the form of reduced tuition grants, a new library, lab equipment etc. The other is for the benefit of the bribe taker. There are lots of situations that elevate X over accomplishment, but this seems like one with actual benefit on a large scale. That said, I hope they all get punished for it.

People who claim that top schools have excess budget have no idea how expensive it is to run them. Pledges are a total ok way of funding scholarships and other benefits for the student community on those schools. One "stupid rich" student enabling "smart poor" ones.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#123

Post by bobthepanda »

guga42k wrote: post #107
failrate wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone is receiving an A, that indicates that everyone receives As regardless of merit.

it might indicate that the course is not designed well and fails to provide gradient among students.

If this is the case across the school, then perhaps the entire school curricula is not designed well.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#124

Post by hannasanarion »

nordsieck wrote: post #22
phonon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean https://github.com/stanfordnlp/CoreNLP ? Why would you expect them to relicense GPL libre software to you? What does "in kind" mean?

> What does "in kind" mean? in-kind (adj): consisting of something (such as goods or commodities) other than money https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in-kind

He's asking, how do you give a good as a gift or payment that is public, free, and open?

It's like asking for an "in kind" license to the Declaration of Independence, it just makes no sense.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#125

Post by mrep »

adamnemecek wrote: post #98
failrate wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone is receiving an A, that indicates that everyone receives As regardless of merit.

Or it means that everyone works their ass off. Or that they went to high schools that prepared them well.

Depends on how they grade. I went to Purdue and pretty much every math and CS class was bell curved around a C and D's aren't passing grades which was pretty brutal and a very effective form of weeding out people since a portion of each class is forced to retake it. Hence why Purdue frequently rates as one of the hardest grading colleges.

Much easier to get into then the ivy leagues though.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#126

Post by spydum »

anyfoo wrote: post #104
LanceH wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These universities don't have the prestige without the legacy admissions (and alumni donors). There are tons of universities, but it's hard to say anyone "deserves" a spot over someone's family who helped build it.

Then why do European universities, many of them very prestigious and much, much older than American ones, base their admission on grades and tests? Given that in most European countries (I think, it'd definitely the case in Germany) tuition isn't a thing either, one can reasonably conclude that admission to an elite university is linked to academic prowess, at least to a higher degree than American universities. I we…

Have to admit my American ignorance here, but outside of music schools I cannot think of any major elite universities outside of maybe oxford and Cambridge? I’m curious if Europeans could name a few Ivy League American universities? Maybe I’m the uncultured exception, but I don’t think most Americans even talk about foreign universities (I have no doubt to our own disadvantage)

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#127

Post by rxhernandez »

burtonator wrote: post #12
resalisbury wrote: post #2

From the article: "It may be legal to pledge $2.5 million to Harvard just as your son is applying — which is what Jared Kushner’s father did for him — and illegal to bribe a coach to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, but how much of a difference is there, really? Both elevate money over accomplishment."

How about completely blind job admissions, school admissions, etc. No names, no race, no age, etc. Just raw test scores. Test them against problem solving skills objectively, etc.

Then you eliminate high schools like the one I went to where, we spent 10s of hours in labs per week to be competitive for college. How are you going to incorporate electrical engineering or materials science into a standardized exam and meaningfully compare our results to our peers?

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#128

Post by anyfoo »

mLuby wrote: post #75
jonny_eh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a school prestigious by allowing undeserving[1] rich kids in? [1] In the sense that they're not academically or athletically at the top of the heap.

Because riches and prestige are often found in the same family, so a school or company with an aggregation of such families' progeny is able to reflect some of their shine. Not saying it's a morally correct, but that's 's how (American) society works. We aren't good at predicting a child's success so we fall back on historical (familial) data.

I really don't get how that can reasonably be considered a better predictor of a successful university degree than previous grades and application tests, without some serious mental gymnastics.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#129

Post by adamnemecek »

mrep wrote: post #125
adamnemecek wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it means that everyone works their ass off. Or that they went to high schools that prepared them well.

Depends on how they grade. I went to Purdue and pretty much every math and CS class was bell curved around a C and D's aren't passing grades which was pretty brutal and a very effective form of weeding out people since a portion of each class is forced to retake it. Hence why Purdue frequently rates as one of the hardest grading colleges. Much easier to get into then the ivy leagues though.

> a very effective form of weeding out people since a portion of each class is forced to retake it

This seems really pointless.

Re: Bribes to Get into Yale and Stanford? What Else Is New?

#130

Post by bobthepanda »

umeshunni wrote: post #53
burtonator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about completely blind job admissions, school admissions, etc. No names, no race, no age, etc. Just raw test scores. Test them against problem solving skills objectively, etc.

That's how college admissions in most asian countries work. You're get a roll number, you write a test, a list gets published that ranks all the roll numbers, sometimes with scores. Colleges offer admissions to anyone who scored between ranks 1-N. At more elite schools N is small (e.g. 100), but in lower ranking schools N is large (e.g. 100000+). Affirmative action is practiced by having different Ns for different di…

At least in East Asia, this also results in a highly test-optimized education system. This can result in multiple negative side effects, such as test anxiety, stifled creativity, and elevated suicide rates among students. Most East Asian countries have considered revising their educational systems. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2149978/insi...
Post reply on HN