Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

cdc.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 174 posts

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#151

Post by mises »

davidgay wrote: post #129
mises wrote: post #120

I've seen other comments mention this, but it's really hard to make the case for paying a wage laborer to not show up. Even if he's sick. Can't do janitorial work from home. And such labor is highly fungible: very high turnover, easy replacement, little training, lots of firing/hiring. If you don't show up, you get replaced, mostly because your company now has to hire someone else to do the job and has no reason to k…

> I've seen other comments mention this, but it's really hard to make the case for paying a wage laborer to not show up. Even if he's sick. The concept you're looking for is "insurance". It solves the problem here (for the employer, for the employee, for the other employees, for society as a whole).

Insurance in this case is silly. The premise of insurance is to protect against financial catastrophe, which is why it is carried for things like a possible half-million dollar medical bill, house burning down, etc.

Another core tenet of insurance is that the event against which it protects is not certain (or even likely, typically) to occur. Though this has been somewhat perverted with medical these days ("I want coverage for my $200/mo prescription"), it's still the basic idea. American workers take about 5 sick days per year (https://www.statista.com/statistics/682924/sick-leave-days-a... that's not an uncertainty. And because sick days are limited, insurance doesn't make sense: businesses offer as many sick days as they are able and willing to fund; any more they just don't cover.

In summary, there's no "catastrophic situation" here, it's just a serious expense many can't or wont cover.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#152

Post by School-Cotton »

allannienhuis wrote: post #93
mruts wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well would you prefer to have a crappy job or no job at all? Don’t labor under the assumption that government mandates don’t affect the decisions of businesses.

So it's ok with you if companies treat people like crap, because the alternative is fewer jobs? By that logic, it's ok for companies to kill off a few of their workers through horrible safety practices, than not offering any jobs at all, because ++ jobs is more important than anything. We've spent the last couple of centuries trying to correct that line of thinking, why hang on to it? The alternative to crappy busine…

> So it's ok with you if companies treat people like crap

This is a severe misstatement of that person’s argument. Believing that there is no better alternative isn’t the same as believing something is good.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#153

Post by markdown »

kortilla wrote: post #116
markdown wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, what's Fiji's excuse for being "barely above 'third world' status" ? Well there's a very long list of reasons starting from geographic isolation to brain drain (incl. to the USA) all the way up to military coups, but I doubt that was a serious question so there's no point me answering your question in any great detail. > What makes you think it's normal for Fiji to have low standards of development, but it's…

You missed the larger point. A token offering of “5 days for rugby” is irrelevant if the rest of the economy is shit. You might claim that more government mandated PTO has no impact on the economy, but that’s not been established in any facts you presented.

> You missed the larger point. A token offering of “5 days for rugby” is irrelevant if the rest of the economy is shit.

No you did. A worker who needs to stay home a few days to care for a sick child or parent will consider this a blessing, regardless of how shit the rest of the economy is, how low wages are.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#154

Post by markdown »

zeroname wrote: post #33
markdown wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An American parent has a sick child but can't care for them. A Fijian parent has a sick child and can care for them. This comes out of their own paycheck (not immediately and in equal measure, but over time and on the average. It's effectively vacation days) If you really don't see how the latter position is so vastly better for the individual parent than I don't know what to say. Perhaps you've never been a wage sla…

Believe it or not, an American parent can take a vacation day as well. The difference is, you're not forced to have vacation days and suffer lower pay for it. In any event, why have only five days? If five days is good, why aren't two weeks even better? How could five days be enough to care for your family? Why not a whole month, that's even better than two weeks! I'll tell you why: Because it's not a free lunch . Th…

"Why have only one painkiller? If one painkiller is good, why not take the whole bottle? How one pill be good enough to ease your pain? Why not the whole bottle, that's even better than one pill!"

What a silly argument.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#155

Post by crankylinuxuser »

kortilla wrote: post #112
DangitBobby wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unreasonable to be discouraged when you reach out to two professionals and neither of them seem to think that it's worth their time.

Lawyers work in niches. It’s unreasonable to expect to find one after only speaking to two.

Maybe you missed the part that I said I was working at Walmart and got fired. This is your typical grunt job, not an IT position with respect and dignity.

I wasn't rolling in dough prior to it, and had even less afterward. The thought that I'd be able to shop around with lawyers and schedule a consultation, and all that while I'm scrambling for looking for another job... Well, it speaks to many people here that do have buffers in their income and savings. I, and all whom I worked with at the time had no buffers.

Maybe I'd have won. Or not. But what I do know is the lawyers who did want to hear my case both said no. Others, I left the details with the secretary. Nothing.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#156

Post by dang »

zeroname wrote: post #53
renholder wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working from home on occasion certainly isn't unusual. Occassion and modus operandi are two entirely different precepts but you know this, yeah, and your trying ever-so hard to be pedantic. It's cute. > Paid sick days is something your insurance may or may not cover. I thought it was the employer who paid the sick days in the states. What you're talking about falls under the FMLA, I believe; which is an entire diff…

> Occassion and modus operandi are two entirely different precepts but you know this, yeah, and your trying ever-so hard to be pedantic. It is you who is being pedantic. My point is that working from home, as a developer, because of some special case is generally possible, just like in your case . Now what about all the other professions in your country? Do they all get their little "stay at home" days? No? Then what…

We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Would you please not create accounts to do this with on HN?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#157

Post by dang »

renholder wrote: post #39
zeroname wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because I'm "out of touch" with ordinary, less privileged workers doesn't equate to my experience and observations in the sector as being invalidated, yeah? It means your experience doesn't scale to broader society, but you were making a point about broader society. If the ordinary secretary or the shift worker or the policeman don't get their "work from home days" there's essentially no difference in your exa…

> Working from home on occasion certainly isn't unusual. Occassion and modus operandi are two entirely different precepts but you know this, yeah, and your trying ever-so hard to be pedantic. It's cute. > Paid sick days is something your insurance may or may not cover. I thought it was the employer who paid the sick days in the states. What you're talking about falls under the FMLA, I believe; which is an entire diff…

Flamewars will get you banned here. Please do not post like this to Hacker News, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#158

Post by jelliclesfarm »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #155
kortilla wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers work in niches. It’s unreasonable to expect to find one after only speaking to two.

Maybe you missed the part that I said I was working at Walmart and got fired. This is your typical grunt job, not an IT position with respect and dignity. I wasn't rolling in dough prior to it, and had even less afterward. The thought that I'd be able to shop around with lawyers and schedule a consultation, and all that while I'm scrambling for looking for another job... Well, it speaks to many people here that do ha…

I am sorry that you had this experience.

But manual labour is dangerous and unfair. It’s worse in Ag field and even children and families who live near large farming communities are affected by drift and the spraying and watershed poisoning and general environmental degradation. This is why we must automate and get machines to do the dangerous jobs.

Yes, that will be a post labour world but that’s easier to figure out. It’s better to give dignity to people than make human beings work for other human beings. I abhor the very notion.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#159

Post by jelliclesfarm »

rayiner wrote: post #149
grigjd3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are very fortunate that your parents could help you raise your first kid. That is not something universally available and my first year as a parent was very rough.

It was fortunate, but I don’t think it was particularly fortunate. The average American lives 18 miles from their mother: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-f... . The reason I bring up grandparents is because OP’s post struck me as pretty ignorant of the circumstances of the people (disproportionately lower income), who are actually having kids in this country: > The data reveal a country of…

‘Raising kids is not hard’: After reading some of the comments here, I have changed my mind. I now feel like it’s not just counseling, but prospective parents should be given a written and oral test and must obtain a child license before they can have children who will have to be supported by public monies.

(Change My Mind)

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#160

Post by Escolte »

lqet wrote: post #118
Escolte wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because here in Western Europe, our healthcare doesn't depend on your job/income. Plus, I've found that on average Americans are more health anxious (for example, if I search in Google Spain in Spanish "I just accidently hit my head with a wall" the treatment results I'll get will be "if you feel fine afterwards, and you didn't black out or anything like that, it's okay" while if I do the same search on google.com/nc…

> Because here in Western Europe, our healthcare doesn't depend on your job/income. It doesn't? At least where I am from, the cost of healthcare very much depends in your income, as the insurance rates are calculated like taxes (with an upper limit, of course). And this only covers basic medical care. Anything that is viewed as "luxury" or "cosmetic" is either only covered partly, or not at all, for example artificia…

Well, when I said free, I of course meant paid through taxes that are adjusted to your income level. Here in Spain your public healthcare quality won't change depending on if you make €1000 or €4000. You won't be put on top of a medical waiting list because you contribute more taxes wise to the system.

Dentistry is another thing altogether.

Also opting out of "public health insurance" is impossible here in Spain, because it's a right. You can however choose to get private insurance/get treated by a private healthcare company.

Post reply on HN