US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#171

Post by benj111 » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #123

askmike wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does that matter? There are huge differences culturally and socioeconomically between different states (and even areas). States have very different laws with a "federal government" managing it all. I don't see how it's very different from EU member states and the EU in Brussel managing it all.

There are a few ways it's very different. First is that the US has a national standard process for obtaining a passport that applies regardless of what state you're in. That is not the case for the EU. Second, not all EU member countries are parties to all the same treaties, again, unlike the US. Third, each EU country has its own domestic and international policy, restricted that may be as regards to international a…

"potential new members that it did not have the opportunity to individually evaluate"

Theres nothing stopping the US adding a state.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#172

Post by Scoundreller » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #71

benj111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you support the ETIAS initiative? As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations? I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides. Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why…

Because the US requires the same nonsense from EU citizens. Requiring it from theirs creates an incentive to dropping it.

At least the EU made theirs 3 years.

I challenge them to do the Canadian thing and make it 5 years.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#173

Post by Scoundreller » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #25

This is really bad reporting. It isn't just US citizens, click here for a list of the 57 countries that will also require ETIAS in 2021: https://etias.com/about-etias/who-needs-etias It even includes the island of Palau and their population of 20,000 people: https://etias.com/about-etias/etias-for-palauan-citizens This has nothing to do specifically with the US.

It’s funny to see the scam sites launch so quickly, just so they can charge 50 EUR in 2021 for sending in your 7 EUR application.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#174

Post by ameister14 » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #171

ameister14 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few ways it's very different. First is that the US has a national standard process for obtaining a passport that applies regardless of what state you're in. That is not the case for the EU. Second, not all EU member countries are parties to all the same treaties, again, unlike the US. Third, each EU country has its own domestic and international policy, restricted that may be as regards to international a…

"potential new members that it did not have the opportunity to individually evaluate" Theres nothing stopping the US adding a state.

Sure, but if that occurs the state is now no longer an individual and can never leave. States in the US are not individually parties to any agreements with other countries, so the treaty would have no additional members.

The same thing applies if belgium decides to conquer a few more miles of land. You can leave the EU, no state leaves the USA.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#175

Post by ElBarto » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

throwaway12iii wrote: post #31

ElBarto wrote: post #5

No, no visa will be needed. The EU is introducing a system equivalent to the US's ESTA. (Most) EU citizens may travel visa-free to the US but must register (and pay) on ESTA. It will be the same for US citizens to travel to the EU.

Both systems are visas. Fact.

No, they are not.

ESTA specifically allows people to travel visa-free.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#176

Post by jkaplowitz » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

jkaplowitz wrote: post #40

zaroth wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

Due to the nature of the Schengen area and the greater independence of an EU member state compared to a US state, there's no real way to track whether a US citizen overstays more in some parts of the Schengen area than others. And I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least some of the EU member states in question are on track to join Schengen before the time ETIAS launches in 2021.

Self-replying to note that one of the EU member states on which the US imposes visa requirements, Poland, is already in Schengen. (Edit window has passed.)

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#177

Post by Scoundreller » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

dontbenebby wrote: post #108

kashprime wrote: post #4

This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors. It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'

>This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors Canada does not require any visa for Americans tourists. All I need to do is bring a passport (or passport card if driving in)

Correct: they’ve exempted each other.

Lots of dual citizens.

If Canada required Canadian passports from dual US/Canada nationals, an American in that situation could lose their security clearance.

(Usually the US is okay with being a dual citizen if you haven’t taken advantage of it in any way).

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#178

Post by Scoundreller » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

kashprime wrote: post #4

This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors. It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'

Tell that to the accidental Canadians or Americans (ie: born in Canada or US, but lived 99% of their life in Europe).

Then when they tried to get an authorization, they got rejected and told their EU passport is worthless and to get a Canadian/US one).

It’s a lot messier for the EU because of jus sanguine. Toooons of EU citizens that haven’t/won’t bother to get the passport.

I guess I’ll have to do it and waste the embassy’s time in a language I know 20 words of.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#179

Post by ElBarto » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

anonu wrote: post #129

We are witnessing the breakdown of the world order established post WWII. The EU exists because of the US. Its security and trade routes are guaranteed because the US is an ally. No EU country has a military that compares to that of the US, especially in terms of naval power. Hindering access to the EU may be a minor nuisance on the surface. But its a harbinger of worse things to come and undermines the unprecedented…

The EU exists because of Europeans. The US do not want the EU to be a political power.

The US have had the 20th century, that great for them but it's high time for Europe to recover.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#180

Post by lispm » Sat, Mar 09, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

erentz wrote: post #139

TomVDB wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace “passport” by “driving license” and things are almost equivalent: a piece of paper that pins you down a particular plot of land.

You’re not getting the point. The USA is a single country. All of its citizens are to be treated equally. And all of its foreign affairs are handled by the one federal government. The EU is a very complicated collection of many individual countries that all have their own citizens, and all represent themselves individually in foreign affairs except where it’s convenient to represent themselves as a group. Free moveme…

There are a lot of misconceptions about the EU, the European Union, in your post.

> The EU is a very complicated collection of many individual countries that all have their own citizens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_the_European_Un...

As a German, I'm a citizen of Germany and a citizen of the EU.

> Free movement in the EU doesn’t even extend to all member countries

Sure it does. It does even extend to a few countries outside the EU.

> different types of citizens

They are all EU citizens. All of them have the right of free movement within the EU. Many of them are also in the Schengen area (which has 400 Million people), which got rid of internal border controls and which has a common Visa policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_Schengen_Ar...

> Turkey is a dictatorship and came damn close to being in the EU.

It never came close to being in the EU. There have been talks since 2005 with not much progress. Turkey would need to fully comply with EU laws and regulations. That's a process which could need another decade. Then the EU countries would need to vote in favor. Every single one of them. That's not clear how that would be achievable. If Turkey would be a dictatorship, then there would be zero chance of Turkey becoming a member of the EU.

> Hungry

Hungary?