Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 269 posts

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#61

Post by zamfi »

rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

As an EU citizen who wants for “EU countries should be treated equally”, you might want to start at home — Schengen doesn’t include (some of) the countries you listed and citizens of (some of) those countries don’t have the same work rights across the EU itself already.

It feels like major hypocrisy to ask the US to treat nationals from those countries equally when the EU itself does not.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#62

Post by tapppi »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #52

So, given that the ETIAS was only for 5 countries of the EU and the EU has reciprocated by enacting a union wide measure that, essentially requires the same thing (in school yard fashion); are we now going to "push back" and require an ESTA for all countries in the EU?

Your comment confuses multiple points:

* US requires visas for travellers from 5 EU countries, only ESTA for others. EU requires equal treatment of member nations. This is the point of the EU-USA discord

* ETIAS is an electronic travel authorisation system similar to the ESTA, and applies to all travelers to the EU from visa-free countries. Practically ESTA and ETIAS are both e-visas. This applies to all countries, not just the US.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#63

Post by guan »

cm2187 wrote: post #14
kashprime wrote: post #4

This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors. It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'

How do you define a visa then?

In practice it would probably be best to use the terminology of the country you are visiting. A visa is a document that says “Visa” on it. Things like US ESTA, Schengen ETIAS, Canadian eTA, etc., are not called visas by the jurisdictions that issue them. If a country makes it easy to apply for visas online without an interview, and calls that a “visa,” then it’s a visa.

Some other countries don’t have advance electronic approval, but do distinguish between visa-on-arrival and visa-free transit, and it would be advisable to follow each country’s terminology. Australia does refer to its ETA and eVisitor programs as a “visa” in official literature.

Otherwise you could end up confused and say the wrong thing. For example if you arrive at the border and the officer asks “Do you have a visa?” and you answer “Yes” but only have a travel authorization, you have suddenly made a false statement and could be in trouble.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#64

Post by sorokod »

zaroth wrote: post #26
rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

Tit for tat is an effective strategy for Prisoner's dilemma :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma#The_itera...

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#65

Post by barry-cotter »

zaroth wrote: post #26
rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

Tit for tat is a fantastic model, much like GRIM[1] because it has the advantage of being simple, clear and easily checkable. The EU as an organisation is meant to fight, as one, for its member states’ interests. Easily verified policy makes coordination far, far easier, as does legal and organisational equality. The U.K. expected the EU to throw Ireland under the bus when it came to Brexit and they didn’t because it’s a partnership of nominal equals. For the same reason the EU is extremely strongly motivated to advocate for all its citizens to be treated equally by the US.

[1]Never forgive, never forget

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#66

Post by ajmurmann »

PunchTornado wrote: post #50
zaroth wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

are you ok with EU imposing visas for some US states and not for others?

I'm more than OK with that. Especially given that I have a pretty good idea what state Europeans are more likely to have a critical opinion of.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#68

Post by fiblye »

geff82 wrote: post #58

The elephant in the room is that between the EU and US, there should be no visa at all, ideally some kind of free move zone like the EU is itself (and befriended states like Switzerland)

>there should be no visa at all

And why is that?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#70

Post by philipov »

cm2187 wrote: post #29
philipov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"An endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country." A hat and a helmet both protect your head, but you wouldn't call them by the same name.

Well, with centralised IT systems, it doesn't need to be a physical sticker on your passport but rather an authorization number associated with your passport number (more secure than relying on someone not faking the sticker). But the vetting process is still there. Fundamentally isn't it the exact same thing (a sort of an electronic helmet)?

You asked for a definition, so I looked it up. I'm not advocating a specific opinion.
Post reply on HN