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US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

cnn.com

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Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#51

Post by ketzu »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #20
benj111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you support the ETIAS initiative? As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations? I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides. Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why…

I think the original reply was talking about countries like USA, Canada, Australia, NZ etc that will have to do ETIAS. Schengen areas are still true freedom of movement. I am an American citizen and think all electronic visas are a silly pain in the ass, but are better than traditional visas which require mailing your passport somewhere. The world should strive for true freedom of movement for all people. Show up in…

I (as a eu citizen) think calling esta, eta, etias and the like "visa-free travel" is wrong and implementing it as a replacement for actual visa freedom is a step in the wrong direction.

Having it as an intermediate step is great, though.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#52

Post by UnpossibleJim »

So, given that the ETIAS was only for 5 countries of the EU and the EU has reciprocated by enacting a union wide measure that, essentially requires the same thing (in school yard fashion); are we now going to "push back" and require an ESTA for all countries in the EU?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#53

Post by guan »

ketzu wrote: post #41
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia ya, but Canada? The last time I visited Canada by car, I didn’t need electronic travel authorization, so there must be some exemption rather than all visitors.

Canadian eTA only applies to arrival by plane.

The situation is similar for ESTA and travel to the United States. ESTA is required for travel by plane and ship, but not over land. If you are planning to apply for admission to the US under the visa waiver program at a crossing of the land borders with Canada or Mexico, you don’t need ESTA.

(There are a few ferries between British Columbia and Washington state that are also treated as a land border.)

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#54

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #52

So, given that the ETIAS was only for 5 countries of the EU and the EU has reciprocated by enacting a union wide measure that, essentially requires the same thing (in school yard fashion); are we now going to "push back" and require an ESTA for all countries in the EU?

Which EU countries do NOT require an ESTA to travel to the US?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#55

Post by philipov »

ajmurmann wrote: post #34
philipov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"An endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country." A hat and a helmet both protect your head, but you wouldn't call them by the same name.

Wikipedia almost agrees with you, but the "on a passport" part doesn't connect. >A visa (from the Latin charta visa, meaning "paper that has been seen")[1] is a conditional authorization granted by a country to a foreigner, allowing them to enter, remain within, or to leave that country. Why does it matter to you if it goes into the passport or not? If I recall correctly my F1 Visa for the US didn't go into my passpo…

It's not me, it's https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/visa

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#56

Post by gambiting »

zaroth wrote: post #26
rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

>>there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them.

That used to be the case for Poland. After the fall of communism it was extremely popular to travel to the US on a tourist visa and stay - the much higher pay and standard of living were generally worth the risk. But nowadays? In 2019? Why the fuck would anyone from Poland do that is beyond me. The pay is hardly any better if at all, plus you risk getting absolutely fucked over if you have to go to a hospital, not to mention that you could be deported at any time. It just makes no sense considering you can hop on a cheap ryanair flight to anywhere else in Europe and get paid much better, have access to guaranteed healthcare, paid holiday/sick leave and all the other rights that we enjoy as EU citizens. US seems to be living in this bubble from 20 years ago where Polish citizens used to overstay their tourist visas massively - but times have changed, and the visa requirements haven't.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#57

Post by benj111 »

rmind wrote: post #28
benj111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you support the ETIAS initiative? As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations? I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides. Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why…

ETIAS does not affect freedom of movement within the EU in any way whatsoever. It is about non-EU cizitens travelling into the EU (well, the Schengen Zone). The barriers between the EU and other countries already exist, just to a different degree. There are certain benefits of ETIAS, especially concerning the security and illegal migration, as explained by a video linked in a neighbouring post. US is already imposing…

I know ETIAS doesn't affect intra EU travel. My point was we have both experienced the benefits of unencumbered travel (within the EU), why then support raising barriers to other nations?

Security and illegal migration seem dubious reasons to introduce (not) visas for the US. Is there a problem with illegal immigrants from the US? Terrorists?

So then we're just left with tit for tat politics. I for one would like my politicians to be more mature (ha!). This is how trade wars, and worse start. I personally would like to lead by example, be the better man, and be a good neighbour. If others don't wish to, that's their problem.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#59

Post by hyperpape »

ajmurmann wrote: post #49
hyperpape wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the potential effect is that every EU nation ends up with their citizens needing visas to go to the US. The status quo is that most EU citizens get visa-free travel to the US, but some don't. I'm sure people hope the result is that all EU citizens get visa-free movement, but the opposite seems like a possibility. (I'm not taking sides, as I don't know enough. But there is a big potential downside here).

As the top post explains, EU citizens already need a ESTA "thing" (some on here call it visa some don't). For some reason the article ignore the US ESTA entirely and calls the EU ESTIA a visa. So the US is already imposing identical restrictions and then some more for citizens of done specific EU countries.

ESTA doesn't require a consular visit, right? It seems like there is a real difference here.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#60

Post by rmind »

zaroth wrote: post #26
rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them. If US travelers are overstaying…

Just a few points:

- Tit-for-tat response is a geopolitical reality. Regardless whether you think it is pre-school model or not, this is what pretty much all countries do, as it is a perfectly rational way (and sometimes even the only way) to defend your interests. By rational I am talking about the Game Theory kind of rational. :)

- You suggest to look at each EU country individually (just also keep in mind that there are no border controls beetween the EU countries in the Schengen Zone). In such case, should we also look at each US state individually (because they are also not uniform, e.g. some are much poorer than the others)? EU as a whole has much greater weight and leverage. The point I am making here is that it is another geopolitical reality: countries use their weight and, for example, US uses its weight to exert its influence pretty much all over the world. Well, so does the EU in this case, whether the US likes it or not.

- Your point about the citizens of those countries being disproportionate overstayers is not true. As a matter of fact, the overstay rate of these countries is lower than some of those which are already in the Visa Waiver Program (VWP), e.g. compare those fives countries with Spain, Greece, Hungary, etc. So, if there is some kind of threshold they cross, then it should apply to the current VWP countries to, shouldn't it? Please the see offical US Homeland Security report as a reference here:

https://www.dhs.gov/publication/fiscal-year-2017-entryexit-o...

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