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Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

cdc.gov

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Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#71

Post by ddebernardy »

newen wrote: post #60
School-Cotton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the technology sector in the US and my experience is exactly the same as yours. > However, given the American exceptionalism showing up in the thread, I'm going to wager that this probably going to see some vitriolic response. I actually don't believe in American exceptionalism at all. Nor European exceptionalism. But I am fed up with people from the most developed part of the world acting shocked and moral…

You are implying Europe is more developed than America? America has per capita GDP comparable to Europe's top countries. If not what's wrong with comparing your country's labor laws to a similar country's labor laws?

Yeah, but that's usually comparing a mean income per capita. Personally I'd be curious to see a comparison of what's left of the median income after factoring in the cost of taxes, education, and health care.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#72

Post by crankylinuxuser »

kbutler wrote: post #66
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the converse... I'm an American whom lives in Indiana. Let me share my experiences. I worked at Starbucks for 5 years. When I got sick, I showed up to work. I know I worked while having the flu, and making drinks for people. If we didn't show up, our hours for next week would be messed up badly and intentionally. We would go from 35 hours to 15 hours, or we'd be scheduled "clopens" - close at midnight, and open at…

If you have official paperwork showing you were fired for an injury on the job, lawyers would be happy to do the lawsuit on a contingency basis. It would be a foregone conclusion.

You'd think. But there's no governmental agency or office to assist with these illegal actions. I'm depending on the charity and hope of profit of a lawyer.

One attorney I talked with didn't do cases on contingency. Another refused because it was against Walmart.

And that was that. Sure, I was wronged. Not a damned thing I can do about it.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#73

Post by lqet »

I am European, and the comments in here talking about how this would never be a problem in Europe are a bit elitist. It may be true that you may work from home if you a software developer, but if you do shift work, for example, it may be very difficult (or impossible) to find a replacement for you if you realize that your 6-year has a cold 60 minutes before your shift starts. It may be very possible that your co-workers or your boss wouldn't even understand why you have to be at home if your kid has a common cold. My mother was working shifts in a supermarket when I was a kid, and I found it completely normal to be alone in bed for 6-8 hours during my mothers shift when I had a slight cold.

You can't compare upper-level office jobs in Europe with lower-level shift work in the US.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#74

Post by TheCoelacanth »

renholder wrote: post #23
zeroname wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (specifically speaking of the technology sector, as that's what I have first-hand experience with) In other words, you're out of touch with ordinary, less privileged workers. > It really is a different world, over here. The antithesis to the apathetical, if I may be so bold... Oh, come on. If you're a developer you can have a "work from home" day in the US as well. Plus, you can earn far more and you pay less in ta…

> In other words, you're out of touch with ordinary, less privileged workers. Just because I'm "out of touch" with ordinary, less privileged workers doesn't equate to my experience and observations in the sector as being invalidated, yeah? Isn't the site "Hacker News" and not "ordinary, less privileged workers'" news? > Oh, come on. If you're a developer you can have a "work from home" day in the US as well. That mig…

> Let's take this to an extreme example: A coworker missed over two months, last year, for 'x' medical reasons. What would've surely driven him to the poor house in the states was paid through those taxes you later commented on and there was no threat to his job because of it.

Disability insurance is a standard employment benefit in the US for white collar jobs and they would be protected from dismissal by the FMLA.

Less privileged workers undoubtedly have it better in Europe than they do in the US, but it's completely dishonest to compare a developer in Europe to a cashier in the US. Even in Europe, cashiers and construction workers cannot work from home. Even in the US many people do work from home sometimes.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#75

Post by rayiner »

ses1984 wrote: post #59
rayiner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are difficult, but not as hard as you make it out to be. Out of my circle of friends, more than half the kids were unplanned (including our first child). It was no big deal—grandparents swooped in to keep things on the rails (something that is true for people of all income levels). For lower income people, a bit of help with childcare during work is all that’s necessary. The “responsible parenting” approach…

>It was no big deal—grandparents swooped in to keep things on the rails (something that is true for people of all income levels). I'm not sure if you even realize the value of the support systems that were intact for these families. Not everyone has that. It seems like you entirely missed the point of post above. What if you had an unplanned pregnancy with a one night stand? What if you live hundreds of miles from yo…

> What if you had an unplanned pregnancy with a one night stand? What if you live hundreds of miles from your parents? What if your parents aren't with you any more?

My point is not that everyone has that support system, but that it doesn't take much support to make having kids workable, and the government can gap-fill for people who don't have intact support structures.

Almost 40% of births in the U.S. each year are the result of unplanned pregnancies, despite intensive sex education in schools. Nobody is like "oh shit, I didn't know that having a kid could be really disruptive to my life. If only I had received counseling!" People keep having kids because people want to have kids. (Indeed, in the U.S., people are having fewer kids (about 2 on average) than they'd ideally want (3, according to polls)). Telling people they shouldn't have kids--which would end up as telling poor people and minorities that they can't afford kids and shouldn't have them--isn't a replacement for offering support such as childcare.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#76

Post by supercanuck »

renholder wrote: post #15
School-Cotton wrote: post #11

The headline here is incredibly misleading. The CDC is not making the factual claim that "low-income parents send sick kids to school due to lack paid sick leave". The actual truth: a paper from the CDC finding an apparently quite weak link between poverty and rate of school absence due to sickness stuck that in as one of many somewhat plausible explanations, in a very speculative discussion section. To emphasize: th…

Upboat for rationalisation. Also, from the European perspective (and specifically speaking of the technology sector, as that's what I have first-hand experience with), taking sick leave to take care of a child at home isn't a thing, whatsoever. You would just send an email to your team saying that you're sorry but you're working from home because your kid is sick and that would be the end of it. No compulsion to take…

If you are able to work from home, you are probably not living in poverty.

I work for a European multinational, and it is most certaintly a thing.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#77

Post by ses1984 »

rayiner wrote: post #75
ses1984 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It was no big deal—grandparents swooped in to keep things on the rails (something that is true for people of all income levels). I'm not sure if you even realize the value of the support systems that were intact for these families. Not everyone has that. It seems like you entirely missed the point of post above. What if you had an unplanned pregnancy with a one night stand? What if you live hundreds of miles from yo…

> What if you had an unplanned pregnancy with a one night stand? What if you live hundreds of miles from your parents? What if your parents aren't with you any more? My point is not that everyone has that support system, but that it doesn't take much support to make having kids workable, and the government can gap-fill for people who don't have intact support structures. Almost 40% of births in the U.S. each year are…

>My point is not that everyone has that support system, but that it doesn't take much

I vehemently disagree with this.

Not sure how we could continue to discuss if we can't see eye to eye on this basic point.

>Telling people they shouldn't have kids--which would end up as telling poor people and minorities that they can't afford kids--isn't a replacement for offering support such as childcare.

Who said we should be so prescriptive? I think just raising awareness would be enough to move the needle. You can do that AND offer support.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#78

Post by rayiner »

School-Cotton wrote: post #21
renholder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upboat for rationalisation. Also, from the European perspective (and specifically speaking of the technology sector, as that's what I have first-hand experience with), taking sick leave to take care of a child at home isn't a thing, whatsoever. You would just send an email to your team saying that you're sorry but you're working from home because your kid is sick and that would be the end of it. No compulsion to take…

I work in the technology sector in the US and my experience is exactly the same as yours. > However, given the American exceptionalism showing up in the thread, I'm going to wager that this probably going to see some vitriolic response. I actually don't believe in American exceptionalism at all. Nor European exceptionalism. But I am fed up with people from the most developed part of the world acting shocked and moral…

It's not all that comparable. U.S. GDP per capita is $60,000. France is $43,500 (PPP). (In terms of GDP per capita, the U.S. is richer than France by about the same ratio as France is richer than Lithuania or Estonia.) Average net financial wealth per household is almost 3x higher in the U.S. than in France, and 2x higher than the OECD average.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#79

Post by nabla9 »

renholder wrote: post #15
School-Cotton wrote: post #11

The headline here is incredibly misleading. The CDC is not making the factual claim that "low-income parents send sick kids to school due to lack paid sick leave". The actual truth: a paper from the CDC finding an apparently quite weak link between poverty and rate of school absence due to sickness stuck that in as one of many somewhat plausible explanations, in a very speculative discussion section. To emphasize: th…

Upboat for rationalisation. Also, from the European perspective (and specifically speaking of the technology sector, as that's what I have first-hand experience with), taking sick leave to take care of a child at home isn't a thing, whatsoever. You would just send an email to your team saying that you're sorry but you're working from home because your kid is sick and that would be the end of it. No compulsion to take…

It seems that your argument directly supports the headline claim.

How about European low-income people? Low-income people work mostly in retail, transports and logistics, cleaning, construction, and physical jobs. They can't work from home.

Re: Associations Among School Absenteeism, G.I. and Respiratory Illness, and Income

#80

Post by nerdponx »

renholder wrote: post #15
School-Cotton wrote: post #11

The headline here is incredibly misleading. The CDC is not making the factual claim that "low-income parents send sick kids to school due to lack paid sick leave". The actual truth: a paper from the CDC finding an apparently quite weak link between poverty and rate of school absence due to sickness stuck that in as one of many somewhat plausible explanations, in a very speculative discussion section. To emphasize: th…

Upboat for rationalisation. Also, from the European perspective (and specifically speaking of the technology sector, as that's what I have first-hand experience with), taking sick leave to take care of a child at home isn't a thing, whatsoever. You would just send an email to your team saying that you're sorry but you're working from home because your kid is sick and that would be the end of it. No compulsion to take…

You can't work from home if you work at a gas station, warehouse, hotel security, etc.
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