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US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

cnn.com

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Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#21

Post by anoncoward111 »

ru999gol wrote: post #17
benj111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you support the ETIAS initiative? As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations? I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides. Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why…

How is that hard to understand? Why should we treat US citizens visiting the EU better than the US is treating EU citizens entering the US?

Typical HN smugness in the comments. The original reply is probably referring to Schengen areas and is confused about why on earth ETIAS should apply to them

>"I believe in freedom of movement between EU nations"

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#22

Post by Symbiote »

ru999gol wrote: post #17
benj111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you support the ETIAS initiative? As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations? I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides. Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why…

How is that hard to understand? Why should we treat US citizens visiting the EU better than the US is treating EU citizens entering the US?

If there's no other benefit, then we should continue to treat US citizens better than they treat us as good hosts, to maintain the moral high ground on the issue, and to demonstrate our ideals about unrestricted travel.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#23

Post by cm2187 »

skrause wrote: post #19
cm2187 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define a visa then?

When I hear "visa" I think of mailing something to a consulate or going there personally for an application, paying a good chunk of money and waiting weeks to hopefully get approval.

But isn't the ESTA procedure exactly the electronic equivalent of that?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#24

Post by seanmcdirmid »

kashprime wrote: post #4

This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors. It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'

Australia ya, but Canada? The last time I visited Canada by car, I didn’t need electronic travel authorization, so there must be some exemption rather than all visitors.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#25

Post by SyneRyder »

This is really bad reporting. It isn't just US citizens, click here for a list of the 57 countries that will also require ETIAS in 2021:

https://etias.com/about-etias/who-needs-etias

It even includes the island of Palau and their population of 20,000 people:

https://etias.com/about-etias/etias-for-palauan-citizens

This has nothing to do specifically with the US.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#26

Post by zaroth »

rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues.

Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them.

If US travelers are overstaying in any particular EU countries, I would expect and appreciate the same measures would be put in place.

Policy should be set based on the reality on the ground and not merely policital fantasy.

If those countries citizens are not in fact disproportionate over-stayers than the US should change their policy and apologize.

EDIT: This short brief [1] seems to imply there’s room for improvement on the US side. I don’t quite understand why the subjective visa refusal rate is so high for some of these countries when the overstay rate is so low. Unless you argue that the refusals are preventing the overstays, but that is very much unproven.

[1] - https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/2018-01/IB4812....

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#27

Post by ajmurmann »

cm2187 wrote: post #14
kashprime wrote: post #4

This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors. It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'

How do you define a visa then?

The article apparently cannot agree with itself either on this question.

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#28

Post by rmind »

benj111 wrote: post #16
rmind wrote: post #10

The article mixes two seaparate issues: - EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ir…

Why do you support the ETIAS initiative? As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations? I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides. Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why…

ETIAS does not affect freedom of movement within the EU in any way whatsoever. It is about non-EU cizitens travelling into the EU (well, the Schengen Zone).

The barriers between the EU and other countries already exist, just to a different degree. There are certain benefits of ETIAS, especially concerning the security and illegal migration, as explained by a video linked in a neighbouring post. US is already imposing ESTA on EU citizens: why should EU give in and not apply the reciprocal measures?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#29

Post by cm2187 »

philipov wrote: post #18
cm2187 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define a visa then?

"An endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country." A hat and a helmet both protect your head, but you wouldn't call them by the same name.

Well, with centralised IT systems, it doesn't need to be a physical sticker on your passport but rather an authorization number associated with your passport number (more secure than relying on someone not faking the sticker). But the vetting process is still there. Fundamentally isn't it the exact same thing (a sort of an electronic helmet)?

Re: US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

#30

Post by hyperpape »

ru999gol wrote: post #17
benj111 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you support the ETIAS initiative? As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations? I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides. Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why…

How is that hard to understand? Why should we treat US citizens visiting the EU better than the US is treating EU citizens entering the US?

Because the potential effect is that every EU nation ends up with their citizens needing visas to go to the US. The status quo is that most EU citizens get visa-free travel to the US, but some don't. I'm sure people hope the result is that all EU citizens get visa-free movement, but the opposite seems like a possibility.

(I'm not taking sides, as I don't know enough. But there is a big potential downside here).

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