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Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#51

Post by nostromo »

manfredo wrote: post #20

I suspect many companies wouldn't use this as it would make affirmative hiring policies more difficult. For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority female, black, or Hispanic (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are diverse. Recruiters at my company aren't explicitly told to hit certain quotas, but they are given larger bonuses for diverse hi…

Just based on a plain reading of the Civil Rights Act of 64, I don't see how this practice is considered legal.

> It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer 2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employment agency to fail or refuse to refer for employment, or otherwise to discriminate against, any individual because of his race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, or to classify or refer for employment any individual on the basis of his race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

It's interesting how very clear language, like the above, can be eroded away over the years by a hundred well-meaning court decisions.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#52

Post by pjc50 »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #28
manfredo wrote: post #20

I suspect many companies wouldn't use this as it would make affirmative hiring policies more difficult. For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority female, black, or Hispanic (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are diverse. Recruiters at my company aren't explicitly told to hit certain quotas, but they are given larger bonuses for diverse hi…

I'd hate to work somewhere knowing I was hired because the color of my skin and not my abilities. maybe less of an issue in non-brainy jobs, but in Tech I would feel more insecure not knowing if I got the job to fill a quota. This sounds rather disgusting to me.

Because of the way subconscious prejudice works, unless you put a finger on the scale in the other direction then all the white guys are hired (in part) because of their appearance.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#53

Post by haha9993 »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #28
manfredo wrote: post #20

I suspect many companies wouldn't use this as it would make affirmative hiring policies more difficult. For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority female, black, or Hispanic (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are diverse. Recruiters at my company aren't explicitly told to hit certain quotas, but they are given larger bonuses for diverse hi…

I'd hate to work somewhere knowing I was hired because the color of my skin and not my abilities. maybe less of an issue in non-brainy jobs, but in Tech I would feel more insecure not knowing if I got the job to fill a quota. This sounds rather disgusting to me.

if you think hiring is a fair meritocracy you are naive.

Good looking people tend get hired more often. Get higher salaries.

And getting hired is often about good your network is. And the richer you are or your parents are, the likelier you are to get an internship or a coveted job because you are around the "right" people.

And there is also Cronyism, which I have realized is more prevalent that I thought as my career has advanced.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#54

Post by garaetjjte »

manfredo wrote: post #20

I suspect many companies wouldn't use this as it would make affirmative hiring policies more difficult. For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority female, black, or Hispanic (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are diverse. Recruiters at my company aren't explicitly told to hit certain quotas, but they are given larger bonuses for diverse hi…

This reminds me of this article: https://web.stanford.edu/~learnest/les/mongrel.htm

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#55

Post by quickthrower2 »

sokoloff wrote: post #49

As a hiring manager, if you give me a fake name, it is to your advantage if it's the same fake name you use on LinkedIn, github, stackoverflow, and other sites that are going to come up when I google you... I don't care about your social media accounts, your country of origin, your gender, or anything else that's irrelevant to your performance, but I do care about your technical history and abilities (and of course,…

Most names (first name plus surname) are not unique.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#56

Post by manfredo »

peruvian wrote: post #45

Heh. I have a very Hispanic name but I am white/European. This is fairly common where I am originally from and even more in other places. I've definitely gotten weird looks when I go from phone screen -> in person interview. Unfortunately Americans, even progressive ones, have a very narrow view of what "Hispanic" means.

Same boat here. I am Cuban, but basically completely white. A lot of people don't realize that Hispanic is a cultural designation that encompasses multiple races. Many are of native or mixed Central and South American descent. Many are black, descendants of Africans. Many are white. Peru has a large Japanese diaspora, so I guess it's possible to have Asian Hispanics as well (though I've never met anyone that identifies as such).

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#57

Post by eli »

manfredo wrote: post #35
jfk13 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority female, black, or Hispanic (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are diverse. (Implied: in order to favour them at some point in the process.) Is that even legal? So as an individual with a traditional Western European male name, I would be at a relative disadvantage if I applied to your company. H…

Yup. Pro tip, give your kid a name like "Rafael". I trust our company's lawyers as to whether or not this is legal. Race does not directly affect hiring decisions. It only affects resume review and phone screen. So it does affect the population that get to the on-site. But functionally this doesn't seem much different than say, recruiting at an HBCU.

Deciding where to locate a recruiting event is different than deciding which applicants to move to the next stage.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#58

Post by artificial »

pjc50 wrote: post #52
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to work somewhere knowing I was hired because the color of my skin and not my abilities. maybe less of an issue in non-brainy jobs, but in Tech I would feel more insecure not knowing if I got the job to fill a quota. This sounds rather disgusting to me.

Because of the way subconscious prejudice works, unless you put a finger on the scale in the other direction then all the white guys are hired (in part) because of their appearance.

What I’m gathering from this strategy is the only way to fight racism is to practice it? If you don’t mind sharing, what are the quotas your company has in place for guaranteeing outcome?

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#59

Post by manfredo »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #47
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to work somewhere knowing I was hired because the color of my skin and not my abilities. maybe less of an issue in non-brainy jobs, but in Tech I would feel more insecure not knowing if I got the job to fill a quota. This sounds rather disgusting to me.

I'd have to agree. I mean, lets imagine how this sounds by just swapping some words and tell me if it's still okay: >I suspect many companies wouldn't use this as it would make affirmative hiring policies more difficult. For example, recruiters at my company curate lists of names that are majority male, white, or Western (pulled from the census bureau) in order to try and determine which candidates are... can't think…

Although the population swapping test does enforce the Golden rule ("treat others as you'd like to be treated") it does fail to capture the fact that there are population-level disparities in education and other opportunities.

I respect that many disagree with affirmative hiring policies, but just saying that it's be unacceptable to do the same thing to different races is a rather naive approach.

Re: Can fake names create bias in interviewing?

#60

Post by stcredzero »

chrinic83 wrote: post #25
throwawaymath wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stcredzero? "Urban high school kid" isn't jumping out at me. ...Actually, nothing jumps out at me at all. I'm not sure what to make of it. Why do they read high school kid out of that?

"Millennial" here. stcredzero. Street credit. Usually referred to as social status in the neighborhood and local friend groups. Usually used by rappers and African American neighborhoods. However, people living in these neighborhoods don't actually say this today. Typically middle and high school students hear this on TV/radio and use it in their own (usually upper/middle class) circles to increase their social statu…

Also 98% chance OP is male. I'd say 50-60% white, since we're on HN. With the other 40-50% being Asian or Indian.

In summary, yes, usernames tell you a lot.

But site demographics tell you a lot more!

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