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PureOS is convergent

puri.sm

21–30 of 299 posts

Re: PureOS is convergent

#21
post #5

This is nice, but what problem does it solve? Mobile and Desktop operating systems solve different issues on their own. Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? Second issue is: how do I use it? How can I install it on MY devices? I'm all for privacy and I want to is it, just seems like a dream and it will never come to fruition

> This is nice, but what problem does it solve? It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices. Basically the same reason for things like React Native and PWAs. > Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously, we should simply give up on it?

> It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices.

Sounds like a repeat of the Java strategy: you can run garbage nobody wants anywhere nobody wants to run it.

> So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously

Microsoft also attempted it, and also failed quite miserably.

> we should simply give up on it?

Not necessarily, but at the very least you could avoid lying by omission (mentioning Google and Apple which don't exactly attempt convergence and pointedly ignoring every pre-existing attempt at the concept) and maybe consider humility and avoid overblown claims given you're not the first to attempt it, nobody's succeeded, there's no evidence available that you are succeeding, and you've really not shown anything which would made anyone think "this is going to succeed where everybody else failed".

Re: PureOS is convergent

#23

My primary concern with this is that different applications are inherently optimized for the platform on which they were originally designed. There are some applications that have a very dense UI because there's simply alot of functionality that the program handles (think of a video editor, an IDE, etc). Trying to slim down those applications to make them reactive so that they will scale onto a phone or tablet just s…

> There are some applications that have a very dense UI because there's simply alot of functionality that the program handles (think of a video editor, an IDE, etc). Trying to slim down those applications to make them reactive so that they will scale onto a phone or tablet just seems silly

And beyond that, platforms have affordances which you should want to leverage. A smartphone has a very direct and tactile interaction model, but my computer pairs an extremely precise pointing mechanism with a good way to input oodles of text and chord shortcuts.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#24
Here's a report of the effort involved with making the Subsurface dive log desktop application run on mobile as well. The tl;dr seems to be that

1) it was a lot of work

2) users don't like the result very much

https://lwn.net/Articles/780031/

There's a huge mismatch between how users want to interact with desktop and mobile applications that makes convergence really hard to do effectively in a single codebase.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#25
post #5

This is nice, but what problem does it solve? Mobile and Desktop operating systems solve different issues on their own. Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? Second issue is: how do I use it? How can I install it on MY devices? I'm all for privacy and I want to is it, just seems like a dream and it will never come to fruition

> Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? See also: Microsoft. The entire point of Windows 8 and later UWP were convergence. In fact that article reads like pure bullshit, they're only mentioning the two OS vendors which are not attempting convergence (some cross-polination at best) and ignoring the history of suck and failure that is "OS convergence".

As a developer I'm fairly disappointed in how Ballmer messed this one up for us. C# is a nice place to spend your day. And the promise of write once run anywhere is really starting to materialize.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#27
That's cool, and it's good to see work going on in more fundamental building blocks of Linux like Gnome to support mobile and reactive UIs. I always felt like this was the biggest blocker to using a Linux system on handheld devices - having a good ecosystem of open source projects that work for that, and having the ability to pick your own desktop environment and components rather than having to have an "all in one" solution equivalent to Android. Admittedly I know that isn't a killer feature for average users - they do want the all in one solution. But having these things available makes it easier for a company like Purism to build a product using existing software.

It feels like this announcement is missing a step though. What can we do with this? Does this allow plugging your phone into a monitor and then running your phone apps in larger windows (eg, the opposite of what's shown in the videos). The idea of having the same programs running on your phone and laptop is nice in theory, but I'm quite happy with my own custom Linux setup on my laptop, I don't want to install PureOS on there.

Of course, much more work will need to be done in other programs to support this. The Gnome Web example looks really slick, and it's great to see this sort of 'responsive design' applied to native application interfaces - Android took a step backwards in this regard. But on desktop I'd rather use Firefox, and they have entirely separate builds for desktop and mobile. I wonder if Mozilla have any plans to support this?

Re: PureOS is convergent

#28

I keep looking at their products (laptop & phone) and can't pull the trigger based on what seems like a lack of apps/UX. I really want have better privacy and support companies with that in their DNA. I almost purchased a black-phone before. I really think sandboxing built-in emulator for android apps has to occur for the phone to get traction. I think i'm their ideal consumer and still can't see the value yet. I'm a…

> I really think sandboxing built-in emulator for android apps has to occur for the phone to get traction

> I think i'm their ideal consumer and still can't see the value yet

I don't think you are their ideal consumer. They're appealing to the Stallmans, the people who aren't looking to replace their smartphone, but for which this would be one of their first. I have heard someone say about the Pinephone (similar project): "I don't want a smartphone. But I want this. "

I do think they could vastly expand their appeal by adding Android emulation, but I have a feeling using the (which seems like the) market leader (Alien Dalvik) would be some licensing hassle, as you'd want to allow people to install their own distro and still use it. Add to that the whole (admittedly important) thing about everything being open software.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#29
I've become unenthused about this software "dream". Having spent years designing and building UIs on the web, what I've learned is that:

1) Convergence works great for "casual" apps - messaging, stores, content feeds, etc.; anything where the amount of stuff you need to see on screen at once doesn't need to be especially large. But the web already does a great job of making this type of application both responsive and cross-platform.

2) Advanced, dense professional tools will never adapt automatically to mobile screens in any meaningful way. And frankly, these are all I find myself installing natively on my desktop anymore.

The vast majority of software these days falls squarely into one of these two camps, and neither seems to benefit much from the prospect of convergence.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#30
post #5

This is nice, but what problem does it solve? Mobile and Desktop operating systems solve different issues on their own. Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? Second issue is: how do I use it? How can I install it on MY devices? I'm all for privacy and I want to is it, just seems like a dream and it will never come to fruition

> This is nice, but what problem does it solve? It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices. Basically the same reason for things like React Native and PWAs. > Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously, we should simply give up on it?

It solves a _development_ problem

I think the GP meant to ask "what problem does this solve for end users?" It's hard to market to consumers if your primary differentiator is only useful to developers.

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