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Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#181

Post by belltaco »

CannisterFlux wrote: post #55
strken wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "science" in the linked WaPo article, and the science from the journal, weakly indicate that if you get 5 hours of sleep each night for an entire work week you will get fat, and sleeping in for an extra hour on the weekend won't stop you getting even more fat when you do the same thing on Monday and Tuesday. This has almost nothing to do with what ferros said. No, resting on the weekend won't uneat or burn the ex…

How does sleeping less make you fat? Eating more will make you fat, eating less will make you less fat. If you sleep less you have more time to eat more, but that still requires the eating to happen.

Sleep deprivation makes you hungrier, increases your appetite and cravings, gives you headaches and makes you feel miserable if you don't eat more.

The mechanism that drives this are the hormones ghrelin and leptin. Look up their action if you're interested.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#182

Post by asark »

hutzlibu wrote: post #149
michaelt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

avoid artificial light after 8 To follow this advice in my location (sunset today 6pm) should I be going to bed at 8pm? Or should I be trying to read by moonlight or something?

Candles are nice. But anything is better, than ordinary LED light..

Can confirm, found ~2 beeswax candles (dunno if other materials are different brightness) is perfect for reading and getting about the house. I've been looking for a Once you get used to a couple candles carried (per person) and maybe one in the room for general illumination—which only took me a couple days—electrical multi-room illumination at night seems irritatingly bright and kinda insane. Sort of like when you cut out soda and then try one after a while and are put off by how cloyingly sweet it is.

[0] I wouldn't do it again without a shaded candle holder, for instance, otherwise you end up looking at them by accident all the time which is painful when your eyes are adjusted for low light. Would probably need to bump up to three candles to account for the shade.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#183

Post by wyldfire »

Loughla wrote: post #133
mruts wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

See, I'm the opposite. Even without the screen time or stimulation, I will fall dead asleep at 10pm, and no matter what, will wake up promptly at 4am. I feel like there really are people who have different needs.

> will wake up promptly at 4am.

A possible explanation is that you've trained your body to wake at that time -- but it isn't necessarily enough/appropriate sleep.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#184

Post by unabst »

Frondo wrote: post #174
unabst wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jordan Peterson is as scientific as a social scientist gets. He cites papers and describes the work of past scientists and his premises are evidence driven. He is a professor; a professional academic. He has his opinions, positions and motives just like anyone else, but is open about them. If anything he is a rock star lecturer that exemplifies how informative, accurate, sincere, progressive, intimate, and inspiring…

If he is such a stellar scientist, I'm sure there are quite a few other scientists building off his work -- I'm sure he's advancing some fields of study, if he is as sharp as you say. Is there a list of people building on the work of Jordan Peterson? I'd like to see it.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wL1F22UAAAAJ&hl=en

See it. You could have just Google it.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#186

Post by Frondo »

unabst wrote: post #184
Frondo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he is such a stellar scientist, I'm sure there are quite a few other scientists building off his work -- I'm sure he's advancing some fields of study, if he is as sharp as you say. Is there a list of people building on the work of Jordan Peterson? I'd like to see it.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wL1F22UAAAAJ&hl=en See it. You could have just Google it.

You did look at that list carefully, right?

He's listed as first author on three of the first 20 entries, and one of those is a pop-sci book, not an academic paper. Of the other two, one is from 17 years ago and the other is from 29 years ago.

This is not the publication record of an influential social scientist.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#187

Post by jdsully »

mruts wrote: post #105
lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

I used to be like that - until I started my current flexible schedule which allows me to wake up naturally.

Now my body sleeps 8 hours and I wake up the same time every day.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#188

Post by el_cujo »

kuu wrote: post #15

I think the research behind this news is quite weak: only 9 days and not that many participants (18 men and 18 women).

I also take issue with how the article mentions that sleep is not a balance sheet, but doesn't really lay out that this was explicitly tested.

They said the participants slept only five hours a night for weekdays. 8 hours is the generally recommended amount for a good nights sleep, so to truly bring balance to that schedule, they'd have a 15 hour sleep-debt to make up on the weekends, in addition to the full 8 hours they'd need to sleep those two weekend days on their own. I seriously doubt the participants were able to sleep 16 hours on both friday and saturday night to fully pay the sleep debt even at their level of sleep deprivation, so I don't think you can really say the "balance sheet" approach is wrong.

I'm not necessarily saying I support a balance sheet view of sleep, I just think these kinds of articles are not very careful with the kind of wording they use. Also maybe I'm just living under a rock, but I don't feel like its that common to only get 5 hours of sleep every single weekday unless you're like a single parent with a baby (in which case you probably wouldn't magically get 8 hours on the weekend), I'd be more interested to see what happens if this was done in smaller spurts, like two consecutive days with three or four hours of sleep to emulate some work or school deadline approaching, but then 8 or 9 the rest of the week after its complete. As it stands now, the title of the article comes off as click bait because its a pretty fear-mongering conclusion drawn from what I consider to be pretty extreme circumstances.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#189

Post by gambler »

Maybe catch-up sleep doesn't work to fully repair the damage if you're totally wrecking your body during workdays, but it definitely helps if you're on the borderline.

I usually sleep more on the weekends. If I don't, I usually start to manifest cold-like symptoms, indicating that my immune system is struggling. To me, this suggest that catch-up sleep definitely helps in some regards. I can't speak about long-term effects, but I don't think having a malfunctioning immune system would be good for me in the long run either.

This is one of those cases where the effect is so clearly pronounced, I utterly don't care what "the medical science" says on the subject. Maybe it's different for different people.

(I generally do get 6-7 hours of sleep on any day, though. No idea how people sleep less than 6 hours a day without collapsing at the end of the week.)

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#190

Post by cr1895 »

unabst wrote: post #177
cr1895 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effusive praise bordering on reverence of Peterson always strikes me a bit strange. He is an exemplary rock star lecturer-scientist and if you aren't on Team Peterson you've got issues or you misunderstand or if you disagree with him you probably are pretty much a science denialist. A bit excessive, no?

Excessive maybe, but not false, and only to counter his blatant miscategorization to which I was responding. I underestimated the support for JDP here, which is my bad but I am happy to defend him. My mother is an anthropologist. The social sciences are flawed in many ways but JDP fully acknowledges and navigates this. If anyone has better ideas or conclusions than he does please share. He wants to know. We all want…

Is it really about his work, or is it about glorifying Peterson himself?
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