Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists • Hacker News Board

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#31

Post by clarkevans » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:27 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #22

I'm curious about how they decide this is a religious site. The artifacts have images on them, but that can't be the only indicator of why they were there can it? Why build pyramids and other things above ground but then make people crawl deep into a hole to have a small religious site? Isn't it more likely people of lower status were forced to live underground and this is their stash of valuables? - to give just one…

Here's a quote from Macaulay's Motel of the Mysteries for you: "The clustering of hundreds of monumental inscriptions mounted on huge poles along both sides of a highway was quite common. Each inscription represented a different religious sect or point of view and was placed as near as possible to heaven." (Section 1, The Motel of the Mysteries, p. 12)

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#32

Post by your-nanny » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #30

your-nanny wrote: post #13

I don't know anything about this team, but the ideal procedure would be minimal disturbance of this site, with minimal removal of artifacts from the site. Organic material for carbon dating, great. There are several principles that one mist follow. Archeology is a destructive science: you can't dig the same pit twice, you can't remove artifacts a second time. So the first principle is: document everything, and destro…

In the slideshow in the article, it says this: > The local Maya still revere the caves, and shamans make special offerings to the spirit guardians of Balamku and ask for the protection of the scientists who are exploring it. Seems they're respecting and coordinating with the local living Maya.

thank you for pointing that out to me. I did not look through slides.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#33

Post by roceys » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

thx. learned.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#34

Post by zimablue » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

your-nanny wrote: post #26

zimablue wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own your ancestors?

Clarify what you mean and I might answer the question.

Your previous answer seems to presume that there are groups of people to whom other groups of people are ancestors, and the first have special rights over anything that happens to the artifacts/remains of the second, I was trying to break down how you think about that. Eg. how do you identify the first and second groups unambiguously, and what sort of rights and limits apply.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#35

Post by xenophonf » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

eps wrote: post #7

yread wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cave exploration is sometimes like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAY-t32vyds

Yeah, I've seen this one. This is an "alternative entrance" to a decently-sized cave with a normal access elsewhere off camera. That's not to say there aren't examples of some truly disturbing spelunking - https://i.imgur.com/BkmpH9v.jpg

Oh man, that poor guy didn't make it:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705347362/Man-trapped-in...

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#36

Post by gerbilly » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #28

phkahler wrote: post #22

I'm curious about how they decide this is a religious site. The artifacts have images on them, but that can't be the only indicator of why they were there can it? Why build pyramids and other things above ground but then make people crawl deep into a hole to have a small religious site? Isn't it more likely people of lower status were forced to live underground and this is their stash of valuables? - to give just one…

Valuable objects; difficult to reach; no resources for living (dark, cold; no food or water). All point to having a very good, very impractical reason for going there. Religion fills the bill very nicely?

The article mentions incense too.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#37

Post by balabaster » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

kieckerjan wrote: post #16

eps wrote: post #4

"Explorers needed to crawl for hours just to reach first of seven offering chambers"... followed by a shot of one of them, flat of his stomach, clawing at the surface and just barely squeezing through, head turned sideways. I am not a claustrofobic person, but this is... damn... this feels suicidal. Makes you realize that some people are wired way differently than others. Edit - https://imgur.com/EHrwHs3.jpg

I once got so claustrophobic just by reading a book about caving that I had to put it away: Blind Descent by James Talbot. It describes the quest of a couple of maniacs to explore the deepest caves on earth under hellish circumstances. No light for weeks, no communication with the surface, camping against vertical walls in the dark, hurricane level winds, tight sumps full of dark water, disease, panic attacks... Man,…

Reading this feels as claustrophobic. This description gave me anxiety... and it's third hand information. Maybe I need therapy.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#38

Post by atwebb » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

eps wrote: post #4

"Explorers needed to crawl for hours just to reach first of seven offering chambers"... followed by a shot of one of them, flat of his stomach, clawing at the surface and just barely squeezing through, head turned sideways. I am not a claustrofobic person, but this is... damn... this feels suicidal. Makes you realize that some people are wired way differently than others. Edit - https://imgur.com/EHrwHs3.jpg

Caving can be incredibly fun as well, tight squeezes can come with the territory but there's plenty of horizontal walking/borehole opportunities. It is pretty geographically dependent.

This one always gets me a bit:

https://gfycat.com/responsibleboweddalmatian-exploration-cav...

I'm wondering if there's not a second entrance or something that sumped and connects, in the US some tracks are a mile or so back but several hours? Sounds significant.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#39

Post by xmichael999 » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

ngold wrote: post #8

Sealed up for 50 years after it was discovered is one of the greatest gifts to modern archeology ever. I can't fathom the loss of truly insightful historical knowledge that would have been lost if it was tampered with 50 years ago. What a hero to the future of humanity in understanding our past.

Is that why he sealed it up, the article doesn't explain that was his logic. Are you finding this info somewhere else?

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#40

Post by nickjj » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

eps wrote: post #4

"Explorers needed to crawl for hours just to reach first of seven offering chambers"... followed by a shot of one of them, flat of his stomach, clawing at the surface and just barely squeezing through, head turned sideways. I am not a claustrofobic person, but this is... damn... this feels suicidal. Makes you realize that some people are wired way differently than others. Edit - https://imgur.com/EHrwHs3.jpg

What bothers me about pictures like that isn't so much having to cram through the tight space. It's the cave collapsing and being squished to death with a 0% chance of survival.

Do other people who are semi-claustrophobic fear the literal tight place, or dying from something going wrong that's out of your control? The same thing applies to heights. I have no problem with heights at all but ladders bother me a lot because I'm always thinking the ladder will fail at any second.