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Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#21

Post by phkahler »

eps wrote: post #7
yread wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cave exploration is sometimes like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAY-t32vyds

Yeah, I've seen this one. This is an "alternative entrance" to a decently-sized cave with a normal access elsewhere off camera. That's not to say there aren't examples of some truly disturbing spelunking - https://i.imgur.com/BkmpH9v.jpg

Damn that's frightening. They need semi-autonomous robots (spider-like?) to crawl ahead with a camera before going head-first into a place like that.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#22

Post by phkahler »

I'm curious about how they decide this is a religious site. The artifacts have images on them, but that can't be the only indicator of why they were there can it? Why build pyramids and other things above ground but then make people crawl deep into a hole to have a small religious site? Isn't it more likely people of lower status were forced to live underground and this is their stash of valuables? - to give just one possible alternate interpretation. How do they decide what a site is?

I'm sure they take into account all the other knowledge that has been gathered over the years and put this find in context. That's largely missing from the article.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#23

Post by realo »

eps wrote: post #4

"Explorers needed to crawl for hours just to reach first of seven offering chambers"... followed by a shot of one of them, flat of his stomach, clawing at the surface and just barely squeezing through, head turned sideways. I am not a claustrofobic person, but this is... damn... this feels suicidal. Makes you realize that some people are wired way differently than others. Edit - https://imgur.com/EHrwHs3.jpg

Actually, if you look at the pictures, it would seem the artefacts themselves a larger than the crack we see in your image.

That was mysterious to me until I saw the rather large electric lighting fixture on the cave floor. So there must be some larger passage somewhere.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#24

Post by INTPenis »

phkahler wrote: post #22

I'm curious about how they decide this is a religious site. The artifacts have images on them, but that can't be the only indicator of why they were there can it? Why build pyramids and other things above ground but then make people crawl deep into a hole to have a small religious site? Isn't it more likely people of lower status were forced to live underground and this is their stash of valuables? - to give just one…

You're not the first to question this. In other forums I've seen people state that archaeologists have a tendency to say ritual whenever they're not sure of something.

If it can be properly dated then it's unlikely regular people were living under a pyramid. But if it can't then it might as well be refugees taking shelter in the mayan ruins after its civilization collapsed.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#25

Post by dkersten »

phkahler wrote: post #22

I'm curious about how they decide this is a religious site. The artifacts have images on them, but that can't be the only indicator of why they were there can it? Why build pyramids and other things above ground but then make people crawl deep into a hole to have a small religious site? Isn't it more likely people of lower status were forced to live underground and this is their stash of valuables? - to give just one…

"Religious site" always seems like a cop-out to me, like saying "we don't know what this was used for, must have been a religious site", but since I'm not an archaeologist or historian, I have to trust that the people who actually are those things know what they're doing and know how to determine if something truly was a religious site or not.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#26

Post by your-nanny »

zimablue wrote: post #15
your-nanny wrote: post #13

I don't know anything about this team, but the ideal procedure would be minimal disturbance of this site, with minimal removal of artifacts from the site. Organic material for carbon dating, great. There are several principles that one mist follow. Archeology is a destructive science: you can't dig the same pit twice, you can't remove artifacts a second time. So the first principle is: document everything, and destro…

Do you own your ancestors?

Clarify what you mean and I might answer the question.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#27

Post by your-nanny »

your-nanny wrote: post #13

I don't know anything about this team, but the ideal procedure would be minimal disturbance of this site, with minimal removal of artifacts from the site. Organic material for carbon dating, great. There are several principles that one mist follow. Archeology is a destructive science: you can't dig the same pit twice, you can't remove artifacts a second time. So the first principle is: document everything, and destro…

My undergraduate education was in archeology at UCLA. I did an honors thesis analyzing Classic Period Mayan burial remains. I've also excavated Mayan sites in Belize. I stand by what I said, despite perverse HN downvotes.

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#28

Post by JoeAltmaier »

phkahler wrote: post #22

I'm curious about how they decide this is a religious site. The artifacts have images on them, but that can't be the only indicator of why they were there can it? Why build pyramids and other things above ground but then make people crawl deep into a hole to have a small religious site? Isn't it more likely people of lower status were forced to live underground and this is their stash of valuables? - to give just one…

Valuable objects; difficult to reach; no resources for living (dark, cold; no food or water). All point to having a very good, very impractical reason for going there. Religion fills the bill very nicely?

Re: Maya ritual cave ‘untouched’ for 1k years stuns archaeologists

#30

Post by ceejayoz »

your-nanny wrote: post #13

I don't know anything about this team, but the ideal procedure would be minimal disturbance of this site, with minimal removal of artifacts from the site. Organic material for carbon dating, great. There are several principles that one mist follow. Archeology is a destructive science: you can't dig the same pit twice, you can't remove artifacts a second time. So the first principle is: document everything, and destro…

In the slideshow in the article, it says this:

> The local Maya still revere the caves, and shamans make special offerings to the spirit guardians of Balamku and ask for the protection of the scientists who are exploring it.

Seems they're respecting and coordinating with the local living Maya.

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