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The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

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Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#21

Post by muzz »

jedmeyers wrote: post #8
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

Is this not the goal? Everyone seems to want this. Reduced taxes for the rich. Deregulation. A better "business environment" due to "small government". The continuation of employer-provided healthcare. Stricter intelectual property laws. Ever single domestic policy choice of late seems determined to do this. Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

Chicago has been overwhelmingly governed by the Democrats, yet they things you've listed are usually pushed by the Republicans. And people leaving are usually going to the majority Republican states and cities. How can you explain this phenomenon?

Was that different before 1970?

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#22

Post by dvtrn »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #17
nostromo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that’s likely true for New York and Boston (and San Francisco) but Chicago is actually fairly developer friendly and ok with density. I think Chicago’s taxation is the problem. The taxes are the highest in the nation and have scared off the middle class.

Not only are they the highest, they have to keep going up for the next few decades due to the structural debt of the city and the state.

due to the structural debt of the city and the state.

That's a very soft way of saying "we have a super, mega, ridiculous pension crisis sucking the city dry"

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#23

Post by pmorici »

If the modern day poor are living an equivalent life style to the middle class from 50 years ago is that really a problem? That’s what part of this article seems to describe. Also would be interesting how much of this is attributable to the rise in prevalence of two income households. 2x a middle income would be considered wealthy by the measure used in this study

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#24

Post by sonnyblarney »

jjoonathan wrote: post #11
grayed-down wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you hail from, but what you so snarkily describe is not happening...at all. Taxes in the US, at all levels, are going up as evidenced by the continual rise in tax revenue collected by virtually all levels of government. There has never been more regulations placed on businesses that deliver middle class wages. Trump may have rolled back a handful of redundant regs, but that's just a finger in the d…

> Taxes in the US, at all levels, are going up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_Unite...

Your factoid, indicating that 'a specific threshold of cap gains tax' has gone down, does not negate the commenters point.

Cap gains is only one kind of tax, moreover, the 'top rate' is just one factor in it.

Overall - tax receipts as a % of GDP have roughly been steady [1] or going up a little bit.

(Hint: tax rates going up or down don't mean that tax receipts go up or down in unison. Lower taxes could possibly mean more tax revenue etc.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauser%27s_law

As for Chicago, there might be specific factors.

My unscientific hunch is that the middle class moved out, the crappy neighbourhoods expanded, and some neighbourhoods were taken over by migrants from poorer countries who don't have access/qualifications for higher skilled jobs.

Essentially the same story as many cities, without maybe the 2000's renaissance we've seen elsewhere with people coming back to the urban core.

It would be nice to look at the entire Chicago region.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#25

Post by sonnyblarney »

ng12 wrote: post #16

It's very obvious to me that the largest American cities are built for the very wealthy and the very poor. If you can afford to move out you can greatly increase your quality of life elsewhere.

In the 1970's crime spike in many American cities, and the 'burbs' became a real aspiration. The middle class simply moved out.

American cities have mostly 'business cores' anyhow, with big banking buildings, not like in Europe where they're pedestrian and have homes.

In some cities, there's been a renaissance of urban living and people moving back in since the 2000's, but it depends on the city.

My guess is that 80% of what's going on here is just that: demographic migration.

What we need is greater Chicago data and probably statewide as well.

I suspect you'll find the 'exaburbs' doing really well.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#26

Post by ousta »

jedmeyers wrote: post #8
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

Is this not the goal? Everyone seems to want this. Reduced taxes for the rich. Deregulation. A better "business environment" due to "small government". The continuation of employer-provided healthcare. Stricter intelectual property laws. Ever single domestic policy choice of late seems determined to do this. Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

Chicago has been overwhelmingly governed by the Democrats, yet they things you've listed are usually pushed by the Republicans. And people leaving are usually going to the majority Republican states and cities. How can you explain this phenomenon?

easy. democrats do not want to live in states where the ideas they vote for are put into concrete projects. just look at california. they all going to texas to make it become like cali

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#29

Post by jaabe »

How is the middle class in the US in general? This is completely anecdotal and based on random strangers on the internet, so it may be wrong, but Americans seem more careful with their money today than they did 15 years ago.

I buy a lot of board games, and I’ve noticed how discussions on $100 kickstarters have started being about how it could break someone’s budget. I’m personally part of the Scandinavian middle class, and a hall mark of that, is that you can spend $100 on something silly and not worry about it.

It’s extremely poor data of course, but it’s something I just never saw 15 years ago.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#30

Post by mvyo »

> A city census tract was considered “middle income” if its average per capita income fell between 80 and 120 percent of the metro-wide average for that year

The "middle class" term should be replaced in our language with something more concrete. It's not even a class after all. It's just an arbitrary label that doesn't have any useful meaning.

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