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The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

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Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#11

Post by jjoonathan »

grayed-down wrote: post #7
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

Is this not the goal? Everyone seems to want this. Reduced taxes for the rich. Deregulation. A better "business environment" due to "small government". The continuation of employer-provided healthcare. Stricter intelectual property laws. Ever single domestic policy choice of late seems determined to do this. Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

I don't know where you hail from, but what you so snarkily describe is not happening...at all. Taxes in the US, at all levels, are going up as evidenced by the continual rise in tax revenue collected by virtually all levels of government. There has never been more regulations placed on businesses that deliver middle class wages. Trump may have rolled back a handful of redundant regs, but that's just a finger in the d…

> Taxes in the US, at all levels, are going up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_Unite...

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#12

Post by StudentStuff »

jedmeyers wrote: post #8
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

Is this not the goal? Everyone seems to want this. Reduced taxes for the rich. Deregulation. A better "business environment" due to "small government". The continuation of employer-provided healthcare. Stricter intelectual property laws. Ever single domestic policy choice of late seems determined to do this. Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

Chicago has been overwhelmingly governed by the Democrats, yet they things you've listed are usually pushed by the Republicans. And people leaving are usually going to the majority Republican states and cities. How can you explain this phenomenon?

Far right Democrats enact these sorts of policies too, see Southern California as an example.

They're usually huge bootlickers, bought and paid for by companies.

Edit: Downvote away, but if you tune to local public radio in San Diego & LA, some "Democrat" will often be banging on about how the #1 job of theirs is to ensure law and order. Democrats in other states don't usually prattle on about law and order, but its a special breed down there.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#14

Post by enraged_camel »

jedmeyers wrote: post #8
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

Is this not the goal? Everyone seems to want this. Reduced taxes for the rich. Deregulation. A better "business environment" due to "small government". The continuation of employer-provided healthcare. Stricter intelectual property laws. Ever single domestic policy choice of late seems determined to do this. Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

Chicago has been overwhelmingly governed by the Democrats, yet they things you've listed are usually pushed by the Republicans. And people leaving are usually going to the majority Republican states and cities. How can you explain this phenomenon?

"Democrat" doesn't necessarily mean liberal. There are plenty of conservative Democrats, and plenty of the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" types.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#15

Post by nostromo »

jseliger wrote: post #4

Chicago likely has harsh zoning laws that raise the cost of housing and also imposes steep taxes for not-great public services ( https://www.illinoispolicy.org/study-illinois-home-to-highes... ). Should it be any surprise that the middle class is moving to Phoenix, Austin, Dallas, Atlanta, and Florida? Perhaps we ought to lower the cost of living ( https://www.econlib.org/yimby/ ) in Chicago, along with other cities…

I agree that’s likely true for New York and Boston (and San Francisco) but Chicago is actually fairly developer friendly and ok with density.

I think Chicago’s taxation is the problem. The taxes are the highest in the nation and have scared off the middle class.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#17

Post by lotsofpulp »

nostromo wrote: post #15
jseliger wrote: post #4

Chicago likely has harsh zoning laws that raise the cost of housing and also imposes steep taxes for not-great public services ( https://www.illinoispolicy.org/study-illinois-home-to-highes... ). Should it be any surprise that the middle class is moving to Phoenix, Austin, Dallas, Atlanta, and Florida? Perhaps we ought to lower the cost of living ( https://www.econlib.org/yimby/ ) in Chicago, along with other cities…

I agree that’s likely true for New York and Boston (and San Francisco) but Chicago is actually fairly developer friendly and ok with density. I think Chicago’s taxation is the problem. The taxes are the highest in the nation and have scared off the middle class.

Not only are they the highest, they have to keep going up for the next few decades due to the structural debt of the city and the state.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#18

Post by rdtsc »

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

Is this not the goal? Everyone seems to want this. Reduced taxes for the rich. Deregulation. A better "business environment" due to "small government". The continuation of employer-provided healthcare. Stricter intelectual property laws. Ever single domestic policy choice of late seems determined to do this. Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

> Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

I lived in "Middle America" and I wouldn't say Chicago is representative of "Middle America" in general? But I only visited Chicago so perhaps someone from there can chime in and correct me.

> Deregulation.

Chicago just doesn't seem like a great bastion of "Deregulation".

It just seems like you are disproving your points here.

Now if we are talking stereotypes, besides deep dish pizza, one thing I think of when I think Chicago is corrupt politicians. The local news stations seems to agree at least:

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/02/11/chicago-most-corrupt...

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#20

Post by losvedir »

Hmm, following the link to look at more charts of the underlying data I'm confused about how to interpret this.

First, the definition of "middle class" they're using is literally average Chicago income, not fixed to some inflation adjusted amount or compared to the U. S. as a whole. I didn't see at a glance if that average income changed over the time. If the average income rose, but the distribution changed, that's not necessarily the middle class being "almost gone".

Also, there's a lot on uncontrolled confounders here. Age is a big one. It mentions that half of census regions saw their average income decline by 20% but that of those regions the majority of people there are under 19 (!).

So one interpretation of the data could be that the city as a whole got richer but a few small areas stopped having kids.

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