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Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

reuters.com

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Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#41

Post by bpye »

howlingfantods wrote: post #40
bpye wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they determine if your iCloud account is Chinese. If you use a Chinese SIM card? Access from a Chinese IP? Neither? Both? Depending on that it could still affect someone from the US for example, if they took a business trip to China. Or if something maliciously routed your internet traffic through China.

iCloud accounts are region specific, it’s a pretty involved process to change it. You have to have a local payment source like a credit card.

Okay, this makes me a little more comfortable - does Apple state this as being how they determine data residency?

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#42

Post by dewey »

howlingfantods wrote: post #40
bpye wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they determine if your iCloud account is Chinese. If you use a Chinese SIM card? Access from a Chinese IP? Neither? Both? Depending on that it could still affect someone from the US for example, if they took a business trip to China. Or if something maliciously routed your internet traffic through China.

iCloud accounts are region specific, it’s a pretty involved process to change it. You have to have a local payment source like a credit card.

Small correction: the credit card is not needed if you go through specific steps like a free app. Then you can select “none” as the payment method in every country I’ve tested so far.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#43

Post by ksec »

I wish for an AirPort iOS Time Capsule. One with a 2.5" 1TB HDD, with a Sub $199 pricing.

For $3 Dollar a month, you get 200GB iCloud, Most people don't need that, As your iOS, Apps, Music, doesn't need to be backed up. Those takes up in between 15GB+. So if you have an 64GB iPhone, that chances are 55GB iCloud ( 50 + 5GB Free ) is enough. That is $0.99 / month, $12 a Year, $24 for two years.

Surely a $199 iOS Time Capsule makes a much better business case than $12 a year backup plan?

Those who don't want their government spying on them, could have use this instead.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#44

Post by dloose »

bpye wrote: post #39
jjulius wrote: post #4

Headline is somewhat misleading - this applies to Chinese iCloud accounts, not all iCloud accounts.

How do they determine if your iCloud account is Chinese. If you use a Chinese SIM card? Access from a Chinese IP? Neither? Both? Depending on that it could still affect someone from the US for example, if they took a business trip to China. Or if something maliciously routed your internet traffic through China.

From the article:

> The change only affects users who set China as their country on Apple devices and doesn’t affect users who select Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#45

Post by smsm42 »

eridius wrote: post #32
smsm42 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 1000 other phone models not manufactured by Apple? Is it some kind of trick question that assumes Apple holds monopoly in the business of mobile/cloud and we're not aware of it? Or there's some other point here?

Everybody who operates cloud services in China is subject to these same laws. If you dump Apple over this, every other choice you have is guaranteed to be no better (and likely a hell of a lot worse) on the privacy front.

Maybe the point is to choose provider that operates cloud services outside of China?

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#46

Post by smsm42 »

mr_toad wrote: post #35
smsm42 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it does not. Sweden probably is less likely to horribly abuse the data to incarcerate and execute citizens for disagreeing with the government, but the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. Swedish government might not be abusing this control right now, but nobody can guarantee it won't in 15 years.

> the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. The real goal is just as likely to be economic - a way to protect local businesses without actually calling it protectionism.

It's probably both. But experience shows control is much more important to the state than the well-being of any businesses.

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#47

Post by smsm42 »

zeroname wrote: post #31
smsm42 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it does not. Sweden probably is less likely to horribly abuse the data to incarcerate and execute citizens for disagreeing with the government, but the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. Swedish government might not be abusing this control right now, but nobody can guarantee it won't in 15 years.

> ...the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. That's one-sided thinking. The goal may well be to make the data not subject to the (lack of) control of a foreign state, namely the United States in this case, but any foreign state in the general case. In fact the EU already mandates similar restrictions for data of EU citizens and special provisions fo…

> That's one-sided thinking.

Yes, one side I am interested in is my side. If I want to store my data in a different jurisdiction, because it is currently less interested in abusing my rights than the one my body physically resides in, I should have that option.

> In fact the EU already mandates similar restrictions for data of EU citizens

That's exactly my point. EU government might be currently less interested in explicit human rights violations than Chinese government, but their pattern of behavior is the same - "we own everything about our subjects, and won't let anybody - including subjects themselves - do anything to escape our control".

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#48

Post by mikeyzhe »

smsm42 wrote: post #29
mvid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And go to who?

About 1000 other phone models not manufactured by Apple? Is it some kind of trick question that assumes Apple holds monopoly in the business of mobile/cloud and we're not aware of it? Or there's some other point here?

However other brands in China also obey the same law, that means you have to choose some brands that never have business in China, which excludes (Samsung, LG, Moto, ....)

Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

#49

Post by mbrumlow »

michaelmrose wrote: post #22
mbrumlow wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put, and I do long for a day we are all simply just "human". But there is enough bad in this world that the only sane way to combat it is based of locality. Just as I am not concerned so much with what is happening in a home one street over, I am also not concerned about neighboring cities, states and then finally countries. Each of these groups surly has their own set of problems to solve before chasing after t…

I'm very tempted towards being snarky. This also is a logical fallacy. You can work on your families problems and opt not to support companies caving to evil dictatorships as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma Based on this fallacy we should never ever address any problem larger than what to have for dinner tonight because piddling issues are ever present.

I can't agree that what I stated is a false dilemma. I am simply stating for sake of efficiency locality matters.

I am also arguing that they are their own people. And while not all of them agree to be governed in this manner, some large percent probably does. It is silly to medal in the affairs of such.

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