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YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

bbc.co.uk

351–360 of 556 posts

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#351
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who use gmail essentially are "letting google decide what is true" by having google do their spam fighting. And letting google choose which responses to choose to a search request is essentially also asking them to decide what's true (how many people even go to the second page of results, much less later ones?) I agree with your sentiment (and am not a gmail user -- yuck!!) but I do sometimes use their sea…

Tangential: what e-mail (if any) do you use? Thanks!

I ran sendmail from the late 80s until around 2001 when I switched to qmail, which I then used until around 2012. Since then I have used postfix.

My mail and other services run on hardware of mine in a colo. I've had a rack of personal machines in a colo since the mid 90s; before then I simply plugged my machines in at work.

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#352
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firstly, kids on YouTube were NOT impacted by this Unfortunately this is inaccurate. There are billions of daily adolescent YouTube users, some of whom entering puberty that were exposed and continue to be exposed to the recommendation algorithm that created this mess in the first place, and for periods running into hours every evening. At such an early stage in development, it is absolutely the company's duty of c…

> Unfortunately this is inaccurate. There are billions of daily adolescent YouTube users, some of whom entering puberty that were exposed and continue to be exposed to the recommendation algorithm that created this mess in the first place, and for periods running into hours every evening. You are talking about a different issue. > At such an early stage in development, it is absolutely the company's duty of care to e…

> The parent should be the one that controls what the child consumes, not some nameless company or the government.

The ways in which people access community-created content (or commentary) have changed substantially enough that I don't believe this is true any longer. Content providers now bear a portion of this responsibility in addition to child-rearers. That is ethically much more sticky, I'll admit, but I also think that moral imperative does not automatically follow the path of greatest simplicity.

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#353
I feel this is unfair to content creators and to the subset of viewers who comment decently (which I think is actually the majority of viewers).

I know of innocent content creators who have faced this, although their content was not child-oriented and showed their own children for barely 10-15 minutes across their total content time of 500+ videos. Banning comments has consequences such as viewers not being able to express sympathy or appreciation when it might help. As a viewer, comments introduced me to many new channels and concepts and cultures - all that is lost now.

This is not the right way IMO.

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#354
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be in the minority here but I enjoy the low quality youtube comments. Most people dismiss them as cancer but the reality is a lot of people think in patterns that drive these comments. I would rather be in touch with and exposed to this rather than try to pretend it doesn’t exist. It won’t ever go away, it will just be hidden.

I think that there's an element of validation and indoctrination that is a serious concern here. In addition to an overall significant lowering of the discourse around things by allowing garbage quality trolls and other horrible comments, and in addition to bullying, aggressive behavior, stalking, and other things that are broadly considered unpleasant, this kind of behavior breeds more of this behavior. Consider som…

As you are clearly blurring the lines between this specific issues and a more general one, I'm going to reference the latter and exclusively the latter. There's a wide gulf between pedophilia and then jumping into appeals against the ever more amorphous 'hate speech.' So on that note it's interesting that in the early 20th century if you look at support in the US for eugenics it was practically a who's who of academia: The Carnegie Institution, Rockefeller Foundation, W.E.B. Du Bois, Harvard, Stanford, etc, etc. [1] One might argue that such views were "purely racist, hate-filled viewpoints." The very reason freedom of speech was such a revolutionary concept is because authority figures, since time immemorial, have been able to propagate bad ideas and manipulate the general population by making false statements which could not be challenged.

In contemporary times a good example of this is Iraq. Our invasion was precipitated based on fabricated evidence and appeals to authority of the sort 'x intelligence agencies have proven beyond any doubt that Iraq has or is pursuing nuclear weapons of mass destruction.' After the fact when an individual [2] tasked with investigating whether Iraq was or was not trying to purchase uranium (he found they absolutely were not and reported as such - the government would go on to claim they were trying to purchase uranium), a government official outed his wife as a covert CIA operative (which the Washington Post would go on to publish) not only potentially endangering her, but terminating her career.

In the case of eugenics it wasn't so much a conspiracy rather than that authority and academia were simply collectively wrong, as has also often occurred. Censorship benefits those in power and only those in power. Those in power choosing to try to inhibit censorship, as happened with the first amendment, was quite the revolution! The point of free speech is to ensure that not only with the good comes the bad, but also that with the bad comes the good. When you begin to tolerate censorship by one side - you very much risk that the side doing the censoring is the bad. And in efforts to obtain only the good, you end up with only the bad.

In today's world, free speech and corporations are becoming a major new issue. An ever larger percent of all human communication is digital, and digital communication is extremely monopolized. This means, for instance, that the US government could effectively circumvent the first amendment by simply pressuring a single company rather than passing a law against the dissemination of any given viewpoint. It also means that a very small handful of people could end censoring or otherwise manipulating public discourse for billions. That is exactly what the first amendment sought to prevent; only the founding fathers could never have imagined a corporation (under which two people have majority control) having more power over speech than any government in the world.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#355
post #79
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's actually a pretty hard problem. > ensure comments meet a basic level of decency Decency is famously difficult to define [0]. One person's idea of decency is another's idea of "free and open debate", is another's idea of alternative culture, etc. And the truly bad actors are using throwaway accounts anyway, or will start as soon as you start banning them. I think active moderation and community curation i…

> And the truly bad actors are using throwaway accounts anyway Have you tried to make a throwaway Google account lately? It's kind of useless to do so. Not so much in the sign-up, but due to the fact that accounts with no history and no clear ties to a physical identity have nothing "vouching" for them, so constantly trip the "Are you a robot?" checks. (And, I imagine, {email, comments, Google Docs shares, etc.} from…

I agree. Much like the email reputation systems that evolved over time, I think other companies (like Google/FB/etc.) will eventually create hidden "reputation scores". For brand-new (maybe throwaway) accounts, those scores will harm the ability to participate in many places. After cultivating reputation (sending emails that don't look sketchy, talking to people who are deemed likely--by IP/demographics/click habits--to be your real-life peers), more participation in different communities will be allowed. Situations where reputation is insufficient for participation will be shadowbans more often than not.

This type of system solves a lot of the throwaway-for-purposes-of-evil-behavior problem, and may well be able to do that algorithmically, in lieu of human moderators. In return, it requires people to give up a lot of privacy/anonymity to participate. I don't think that's an inherently good or bad tradeoff, but it is definitely one people should be aware of.

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#356
post #12

The fact that Google is ceding the fight against toxic comments on YouTube is actually pretty shocking. In a company that knows more about you than you can possibly imagine, and more about automated sentiment analysis than anyone in the world, they couldn’t algorithmically determine who should be allowed to post on certain subsets of videos, or devise a system they thought was worth deploying to ensure comments meet…

Will you stop using YouTube because of this? No. So Google doesn't loose anything and gains the ability to say they're "fighting toxicity". In reality, if they wanted to fix comments, they could easily do it without any high-tech stuff, through basic UI redesign. It's the quintessential broken window effect. The comment section design is horrible for actual discussions. People who have something intelligent to day si…

> In reality, if they wanted to fix comments, they could easily do it without any high-tech stuff, through basic UI redesign.

Do tell.

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#357
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only true for "professional" content creators. The silent majority of creators don't care about monetization and won't be impacted.

I guess I'm reading the words to strictly - We will stop giving you money - We will force you to stop by delete the channel I guess it can feel the same for many creators and be the same thing when communicating on twitter. (No sarcasm intended)

Where does it strictly say they will delete the channel?

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#358
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say that ideas need to be 'approved'. I challenged the idea that the ability to reach a worldwide audience should be free and available to anybody, regardless of content therein. Filtering mechanisms exist in all forums, online and offline. Some suck, like certain sub-communities in youtube. The discussion should be about what filters we employ to best balance the positive value of conversation against the n…

> I didn't say that ideas need to be 'approved'. I challenged the idea that the ability to reach a worldwide audience should be free and available to anybody, regardless of content therein. If that "reach" should not be available to "anybody, regardless of content therein", then the logical and unavoidable conclusion there is some person or organization that has to decide what people and content are allowed access. Y…

This is absolutely not the case.

Reach is about broadcast. There are plenty of non-authoritarian ways to reduce reach. The most obvious one is to make people pay for it (like they do on Facebook). Community moderation is another, and trust metrics is yet another.

All have tradeoffs, but - since you are nitpicking here - it isn't a logical and unavoidable conclusion that this has to be a decision about allowed access.

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#359
This is just idiotic. Rather than removing videos that creeps are into, or in any way addressing the situation where their platform is being used by creeps, they are just removing the evidence that creeps are there so we won't be able to embarrass them by pointing out the creeps using their platform to be perverted creeps.

So the creeps will keep creeping on kids, and nobody will know except Youtube, since they have all the logs. Nobody will be able to screencap an advertisement on a video with some pedophile's comments anymore, so the problem is solved as far as Youtube is concerned.

Re: YouTube bans comments on all videos of children

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The context is comments on videos of children.

In the context of that, I'm fine with youtube's rule, but we were already off on a tangent in the meta discussion and that is clearly not the context of this particular discussion. Go up two levels if you don't believe me. We actually already have laws here in the US about signing up people under the age of 13 for online services and have since the 90s. They're very lax and not enforced. A very large measure that You…

You seem to be missing the point.

This isn't about children making comments. It's about comments by adults about children.

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