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Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

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Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#71

Post by karmakaze »

blizkreeg wrote: post #16
edhowzerblack wrote: post #2

As a developer who has recently been through the hiring process, I think the problem is not a shortage of talent, but rather that companies are awful at hiring. Here are a few of the main issues: 1. Don't limit your potential talent pool to the miserable and the unemployed. In theory, any developer who is currently employed might be interested in leaving their job to work for you. Perhaps you will offer them more mon…

I'd like to talk more about (1). We do a homework assignment that in fact does takes a few hours, but only for candidates who don't have experience developing in our core stack. If you can code in the languages and frameworks we use, it's a step we bypass. It tells us if they can solve a problem well using the tools and setup of their choice. If we clearly see they did well at this, the on-site can then focus on the…

> only for candidates who don't have experience developing in our core stack

If you're looking for top talent it wouldn't be measured against any singular tech stack. I tend to take positions on stacks where I'm unfamiliar, and no I wouldn't complete homework. Employers are competing for the good candidates and should have a process of identifying them without hoops.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#72

Post by mbrameld »

silveroriole wrote: post #59
murph wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mentorship and teaching are also valuable skills. Many good senior engineers would love to focus on them if their employer recognized it as valuable.

Is that really true? Maybe some, but I don’t know about “many”. I’d imagine when most people start on their dev career, they don’t imagine their dream job to be “teaching,” they imagine it to be coding. I think you’d have a tough time getting responses for a “senior engineer” job ad that says you’ll actually be a full time mentor.

I'm just an anecdote, but if I could earn the same salary teaching and mentoring as I do as a tech lead I'd do it with very little hesitation.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#74

Post by itronitron »

01100011 wrote: post #32
DelightOne wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are tons of developers who are good at coding solutions to real world problems in real world situations but simply don't perform well in this type of situation. What do you propose instead to see whether one can do real world problems in real world situations?

I think he's saying that normally a person isn't coding while someone is watching you. I have no problem implementing a data structure on my own but if you ask me to do it in 15 minutes while you're watching every typo I'll probably freeze up.

Has anyone ever flipped the script in an interview, asking the interviewer if they can watch them write code at their workstation for an hour so they can get a sense of what it is like to work at the company?

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#75

Post by mbrameld »

wool_gather wrote: post #47
andy_adams wrote: post #17

When I look for a job, I spend time investigating companies who align with my experience, goals, etc - regardless of whether or not they're actively hiring. Consider doing the inverse: Contact developers who may not be looking, but who align with your company well. It's flattering to hear from someone who is genuinely interested in hiring me - if you're interested in _me_, I might consider you even if I wasn't planni…

This seems similar to the "hire from your network" that was mentioned in the OP. Or, to rephrase, how do you find/target these developers?

Do you use any open-source projects? Reach out to the contributors.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#76

Post by itronitron »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #18
aantix wrote: post #10

This problem is no longer exclusive to the Bay Area. Hiring is time-consuming and expensive, and many startups feel that they can’t compete with some of the top salaries and perks offered by deep-pocketed alternatives. Offer to teach the developer something. "Java developers - want to learn Node and React?" "Rails developers - want to learn Elixir?" Get one senior person on staff who really knows the stack well and r…

If good developers want to level up their skills, how do you keep the senior developer who you've turned into a tutor happy?

Well, they probably chose the tech stack so they can either help with the hiring process or the training process.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#77

Post by blizkreeg »

karmakaze wrote: post #71
blizkreeg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to talk more about (1). We do a homework assignment that in fact does takes a few hours, but only for candidates who don't have experience developing in our core stack. If you can code in the languages and frameworks we use, it's a step we bypass. It tells us if they can solve a problem well using the tools and setup of their choice. If we clearly see they did well at this, the on-site can then focus on the…

> only for candidates who don't have experience developing in our core stack If you're looking for top talent it wouldn't be measured against any singular tech stack. I tend to take positions on stacks where I'm unfamiliar, and no I wouldn't complete homework. Employers are competing for the good candidates and should have a process of identifying them without hoops.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the right process. We want to make it easy for the candidate too. Care to share your feedback/opinions?

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#78

Post by itronitron »

protonimitate wrote: post #66

I don't think the problem is a shortage of talent. I think the problem is that the expectations for the amount of work a single employee can produce are unrealistic. Everyone wants to hire the 10xer. The problem is that they're a) expensive, b) not always easy to work with, c) usually already employed. If companies stopped focusing on getting the "best of the best" to produce results overnight, and instead spent ener…

Something to consider, if every company told every candidate that had an on-site why they were not offered a position then the pool of candidates would more easily adapt, over time, to the needs of these positions. That would be a win for everyone involved.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#79

Post by mikerah13 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #50
edhowzerblack wrote: post #2

As a developer who has recently been through the hiring process, I think the problem is not a shortage of talent, but rather that companies are awful at hiring. Here are a few of the main issues: 1. Don't limit your potential talent pool to the miserable and the unemployed. In theory, any developer who is currently employed might be interested in leaving their job to work for you. Perhaps you will offer them more mon…

I'd estimate (without bothering to sit down and crunch the numbers) I've had a 30% success rate interviewing for programming jobs. I usually get about 2 rejections before I get an acceptance (and, of course, when I get accepted, I stop interviewing). Based on that, I'd be led to conclude that I was a _dismal_ programmer, probably not fit for the industry at all. If there was as tight a tech shortage as they keep insi…

it is

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#80

Post by NonEUCitizen »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #45
cletus wrote: post #15

There is no such thing as a labour shortage. There is only an unwillingness to pay. If you can't afford to attract talent at market rates then your business model as it is exists isn't viable. A big aspect to this is that the equity lottery of startups is largely gone because companies going public is increasingly rare, companies stay private longer (which presents real problems for the liquidity of employee options)…

> There is no such thing as a labour shortage. bullshit. we are looking for talent as hard as we can and we pay premium rates compared to market. 90% of the people that enters the door can't code a for loop. a lot of the candidates, especially those on the younger side, have terrible work ethics, like they find hard to work in a team or under direction and to follow instructions; they won't listen to anything and the…

Pay 10x $ for a 10x programmer.
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