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Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

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Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#11

Post by isaacaderogba »

edhowzerblack wrote: post #2

As a developer who has recently been through the hiring process, I think the problem is not a shortage of talent, but rather that companies are awful at hiring. Here are a few of the main issues: 1. Don't limit your potential talent pool to the miserable and the unemployed. In theory, any developer who is currently employed might be interested in leaving their job to work for you. Perhaps you will offer them more mon…

This seems to align with my experience, particularly your first point.

For context, I’m working as an Associate Product Manager (so not quite a Product Engineer) but I had applied for a job at a Start-up company that I found extremely interesting. Had an initial interview but didn’t hear back from the company for about a month. I had also sent follow up e-mails about this.

When I eventually did hear back from them, they apologised for their delay but then spun me with a homework assignment that would have taken at least 2 days. Safe to say, I kindly declined.

So yeah, really focus on how you’re recruiting for talent.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#12

Post by hichamin »

vonmoltke wrote: post #8

> This problem is no longer exclusive to the Bay Area. When people question why so many companies start or stay in the Bay Area, "density of talent" inevitably comes up as one of the reasons. I can't reconcile that assertion with this one here.

I agree, Silicon Valley is the mecca of engineering talent. However, the demand for that talent greatly outranks the supply. With that being said, how can a seed or even a Series A startup stand out and be able to attract engineers when Facebook & Google are next door? Even better, how can a startup retain its engineer that's probably getting x10 inboxes a day from other companies with better packages?

I'm not challenging you here, but it's common questions I hear that can complement your perspective...

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#13

Post by systemtest »

The cheapest way of finding talent is retaining it. I currently work on a project with an empty backlog and a sprint full of impediments. We are all looking for new jobs.

Hiring a good product owner would've meant retaining the team. Now you have to have to find six new developers.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#14

Post by amarraja »

sharemywin wrote: post #3

Curious what your definition of an A versus B profile is?

Not OP, but during a recent hiring process we asked for backend engineers (e.g. java/golang/databases etc). Half of the CVs we received were for Angular/React developers.

I'm unsure how this could happen with any sane vetting process.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#15

Post by cletus »

There is no such thing as a labour shortage. There is only an unwillingness to pay. If you can't afford to attract talent at market rates then your business model as it is exists isn't viable.

A big aspect to this is that the equity lottery of startups is largely gone because companies going public is increasingly rare, companies stay private longer (which presents real problems for the liquidity of employee options) and there are just so many ways an employee can get screwed out of their equity value that as the time a startup is private increases the value of the equity inevitably approaches zero. Down rounds, liquidity preferences, that sort of thing.

Equity is a pretty terrible deal for employees. Great for VCs. Great for founders (mostly). Horrible for employees.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#16

Post by blizkreeg »

edhowzerblack wrote: post #2

As a developer who has recently been through the hiring process, I think the problem is not a shortage of talent, but rather that companies are awful at hiring. Here are a few of the main issues: 1. Don't limit your potential talent pool to the miserable and the unemployed. In theory, any developer who is currently employed might be interested in leaving their job to work for you. Perhaps you will offer them more mon…

I'd like to talk more about (1). We do a homework assignment that in fact does takes a few hours, but only for candidates who don't have experience developing in our core stack. If you can code in the languages and frameworks we use, it's a step we bypass. It tells us if they can solve a problem well using the tools and setup of their choice. If we clearly see they did well at this, the on-site can then focus on the more non-coding aspect.

Our on-site interviews are highly contextual and rooted in the real-world where candidates work directly in our codebase. They are reasonable in the things we ask candidates to do (re-factor something, review PRs, implement a small enhancement).

If someone can't code in one of our core languages, it's a tougher assessment since we would have to resort to hypothetical/whiteboard crap (which we hate). How do you assess someone then? We recently had a candidate do a take-home where they didn't do well, and it did save 5-6h of everyone's time and their effort of coming in and being subject to the pressure of the interview.

I'd love to hear counter-opinions on this.

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#17

Post by andy_adams »

When I look for a job, I spend time investigating companies who align with my experience, goals, etc - regardless of whether or not they're actively hiring. Consider doing the inverse: Contact developers who may not be looking, but who align with your company well.

It's flattering to hear from someone who is genuinely interested in hiring me - if you're interested in _me_, I might consider you even if I wasn't planning on leaving where I'm at.

Admittedly, it's time-consuming. But it's also "doing things that don't scale".

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#18

Post by daveFNbuck »

aantix wrote: post #10

This problem is no longer exclusive to the Bay Area. Hiring is time-consuming and expensive, and many startups feel that they can’t compete with some of the top salaries and perks offered by deep-pocketed alternatives. Offer to teach the developer something. "Java developers - want to learn Node and React?" "Rails developers - want to learn Elixir?" Get one senior person on staff who really knows the stack well and r…

If good developers want to level up their skills, how do you keep the senior developer who you've turned into a tutor happy?

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#19

Post by DelightOne »

edhowzerblack wrote: post #2

As a developer who has recently been through the hiring process, I think the problem is not a shortage of talent, but rather that companies are awful at hiring. Here are a few of the main issues: 1. Don't limit your potential talent pool to the miserable and the unemployed. In theory, any developer who is currently employed might be interested in leaving their job to work for you. Perhaps you will offer them more mon…

> There are tons of developers who are good at coding solutions to real world problems in real world situations but simply don't perform well in this type of situation.

What do you propose instead to see whether one can do real world problems in real world situations?

Re: Ask HN: Finding tech talent is getting harder. It's not a Bay Area problem only

#20

Post by ebiester »

edhowzerblack wrote: post #2

As a developer who has recently been through the hiring process, I think the problem is not a shortage of talent, but rather that companies are awful at hiring. Here are a few of the main issues: 1. Don't limit your potential talent pool to the miserable and the unemployed. In theory, any developer who is currently employed might be interested in leaving their job to work for you. Perhaps you will offer them more mon…

I got it!

We will hire anyone who sounds good, and fire them within a month if it turns out they're not up to our standards. Then, we will ensure we never get anyone who isn't already employed and anyone just looking for a paycheck or three.

If you heard that even 20% of people were fired within the first month, how likely would you be to take that job?

Note: It's usually called contract to hire. And it just takes the interview stress and pushes it out to 1-6 months.

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