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A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

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Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#71

Post by vinceguidry »

agent008t wrote: post #69
vinceguidry wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owners are so huge they can't be bothered to care about hundred dollar bills lying on the sidewalk.

I suppose it does make some sense if we are talking about 'dirty' money trying to safeguard their wealth from some form of confiscation. So they don't care about the price tag, they just want to safeguard as much of their wealth in a jurisdiction with strong property rights. They are happy if they don't lose more than 90%. Still, it seems very irrational and thus unsustainable.

Markets can stay irrational for a long time.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#72

Post by q3k »

JansjoFromIkea wrote: post #52

The reason I didn't even consider Dublin over London or another major European had little to do with the rent prices as it had to do public transportation. Being dependent on mainly in Dublin means you'll likely want to restrict yourself to areas which can get you to your workplace with zero connections (and everyone else who works in your general area will probably feel the same). Being an especially wet country (no…

I've lived in Dublin for two and a half years years. I like to tell about its public transport to people who complain they have it bad in their city (not that it's an excuse, it's just extremely entertaining to see their reaction):

- There's one suburban train service (DART) that kinda goes through the centre and then just takes you to suburbs. It's like an S-Bahn except it doesn't stop anywhere useful in the city itself. Unless you live in one of the expensive suburbs it takes you to, you can basically forget about it. I've only used it to get out of the city for hikes.

- There's two tram lines, that until a year ago didn't even cross. Oh, and the trams are _extremely_ slow because they have barely any dedicated lanes in the centre, instead sharing the street with the rest of the road traffic. Even when they are on dedicated tracks, they're still absurdly slow for some reason (in comparison to all other tram systems I've used elsewhere).

- There's buses. They're ugly, loud and extremely uncomfortable. They have no timetable, instead they leave their terminus at some fixed time and then go as fast or as slow as they can, sometimes skipping stops if the traffic is bad. [1] Since this means you basically cannot make distributed, reliable connections between buses, they maximize their usefulness by running most of them through a single choke point in the city centre, where it can take up to 30 minutes to go through. Each line has a ton of stops, and every time passengers get on the bus, they go single-file through the driver that asks for the target stop and charges their pre-paid card accordingly (or you can go through a separate card reader that just charges you a daily flat rate, but that doesn't make sense if you're not commuting a long distance that day).

And that's it. Nothing else. Unless you're lucky enough to be on the _two_ tram lines or _one_ commuter train, you're stuck with shitty, expensive buses. Don't move to Dublin.

[1] - There is real-time bus tracking, but this doesn't help you to make a connection, just to leave home/work and not have to stand in the rain for too long. Just hope you bus doesn't get stuck in traffic along the way.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#73

Post by q3k »

lucideer wrote: post #39
Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

The Docklands are a _tiny_ area, and all the development I've seen there focuses on high-end apartment complexes that most people just won't be able to afford - including a lot of the people working at Google, Facebook and Amazon offices nearby that the developers are seemingly targeting.

And it's not like they're actually building tall there. 12 stories? 15 stories?

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#74

Post by throwaway32111 »

lucideer wrote: post #39
Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

> There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin

That's a tiny area compared to the demand for housing.

> your denser/higher suggestion is being done and is having no affect

Nonsense. Dublin has a very low density compared to any other European city. It's almost rural.

> Dublin has an estimated 40000 vacant residential units

...which is clearly not enough to lower rents given the 1347359 inhabitants in the metro area.

> The primary reason for this is that rent prices are not demand-based as much property is financialised—rent isn't a driver for owners, and there are little to no penalties for lack of tenancy, as other cities have.

True. But investors cannot buy unlimited amounts of property. Increasing supply of cheap and good quality (for a change) apartments would obviously help.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#75

Post by cf141q5325 »

dgellow wrote: post #26
imgabe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of things like nightclubs is a reason there is demand for the housing. A city with only housing is not one that anyone would want to live in.

Nightclubs also mean drunk people, which correlates with broken glass being spread around and aggressive behaviors. I’m quite happy to live in a neighborhood in Berlin that doesn’t have the active nightlife the city is famous for!

My retired uncle lives in Kreuzberg with his family since he was a teen. They quite like it and just never moved out.

It has a lot to do with what you can expect from your neighborhood. A nightclub opening up right next door in a silent neighborhood is a recipe for a disaster, but it is similar with people moving into regions with a famous nightlife expecting a normal place to live. I for example dont have much sympathy for people moving in next to Frankfurt central station and then start to complain about the drunks, punks, junkies and hookers. Its like moving in next to train tracks and complaining about the sound of the trains.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#76

Post by iguy »

agent008t wrote: post #43
lucideer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

I don't know, I agree that all the speculation about speculation sounds crazy to me -- the rent usually adds up to the cost of buying (via the interest rate, I mean) so not taking it is an "order 1" loss.

One possible reason is rent control, can anyone comment?

If what you risk is getting stuck for 30 years with a tenant paying last year's rent (and you think it will rise) then that could be serious money, of the sort which might make a rational landlord leave it empty.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#77

Post by iguy »

KineticLensman wrote: post #64
agent008t wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

Anecdotally, I live near a small UK town that has some empty commercial properties. I've been told that the landlords are London-based, and the rental rates reflect London rather than local pricing. Allegedly, the landlords are keen to show that all of the properties in their portfolios could in principle attract high rates, and that to let some out cheaper would dilute the brand as perceived by investors. Don't know…

Commercial property often has really long leases, like 10-20 years. So one reason it may sit empty is that an investor thinks a slump will be short & doesn't want to be tied to a low-rent tenant. (Or doesn't want to break up a large space for small tenants, to wait for a large one... or because they are thinking of knocking it down & building housing, etc.)

I'm dubious that people in real-estate can't understand local prices, I mean within London there are vast differences by street-by-street. I'm also dubious that empty properties & claims about what they could rent for will fool many people.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#78

Post by purple_ducks »

q3k wrote: post #72
JansjoFromIkea wrote: post #52

The reason I didn't even consider Dublin over London or another major European had little to do with the rent prices as it had to do public transportation. Being dependent on mainly in Dublin means you'll likely want to restrict yourself to areas which can get you to your workplace with zero connections (and everyone else who works in your general area will probably feel the same). Being an especially wet country (no…

I've lived in Dublin for two and a half years years. I like to tell about its public transport to people who complain they have it bad in their city (not that it's an excuse, it's just extremely entertaining to see their reaction): - There's one suburban train service (DART) that kinda goes through the centre and then just takes you to suburbs. It's like an S-Bahn except it doesn't stop anywhere useful in the city it…

You left out the atrocious(in the few places it exists) cycling infrastructure.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#79

Post by iguy »

throwaway32111 wrote: post #74
lucideer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

> There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin That's a tiny area compared to the demand for housing. > your denser/higher suggestion is being done and is having no affect Nonsense. Dublin has a very low density compared to any other European city. It's almost rural. > Dublin has an estimated 40000 vacant residential units ...which is clearly not enough to lower rents given the 134735…

If 40000 is accurate, that's a vacancy rate of 3%. Which sounds pretty low to me. That's one month every 3 years.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#80

Post by CydeWeys »

iguy wrote: post #79
throwaway32111 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin That's a tiny area compared to the demand for housing. > your denser/higher suggestion is being done and is having no affect Nonsense. Dublin has a very low density compared to any other European city. It's almost rural. > Dublin has an estimated 40000 vacant residential units ...which is clearly not enough to lower rents given the 134735…

If 40000 is accurate, that's a vacancy rate of 3%. Which sounds pretty low to me. That's one month every 3 years.

Yeah, that's definitely below average, meaning that the housing supply is seriously constrained.
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