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A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

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Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#41

Post by zerogvt »

CydeWeys wrote: post #3
Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

Seriously. And when space is at such a premium, and it's possible to build up as much as demand warrants, why exactly should nightclubs be prioritized over, say, people's housing? Perhaps the fact that they're diminishing in number reflects the simple fact that housing is a better (and more economic) use of limited space? It sounds like they're not allowing enough construction to meet demand, and then being shocked w…

It's not housing though. It's hotels - quite different. Rents have been climbing up for the past years (it's now worse than London or Munich) and they don't seem to slow down. Tech boom (low taxation on tech firms), Brexit and AirBnB are the main drivers. People are coming in (quite often with fat paychecks) but few new apartments/houses are being build. New hotels will compete w/ AirBnB but will do little to alleviate the housing crisis(1).

1. It has been publicly recognized as such for quite long now. Crisis meaning that lower income families are unable to compete in this market (i.e. evictions and such). Also this is a hindrance to further economic development (who's going to work on all these new jobs when s/he'll have trouble making ends meet?). You get the idea.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#42

Post by sshagent »

fredophile wrote: post #17
imgabe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were a high rise, I don't think it would be a problem. You could do a nightclub on the ground floor, 10 floors of office (which would would be empty when the nightclub is open) and 10 floors of apartments above that.

Have you ever lived near a night club? I used to live in an apartment with a nightclub down the street on the next block. I couldn't hear noise from the club itself but I could always tell when it closed by the loud people on the street. I was 20 floors up. People can decide they're willing to live with the noise for the convenient location but there will always be some amount of noticeable noise if you live on the s…

Oh crap, i had forgotten about that. I lived on a corner of two streets filled with clubs, several floors up. 23:00 onwards it was like someone was shouting constantly and directly outside each of my windows. Granted after a few weeks this became "normal" and every place I've lived in since as seemed strangely quiet.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#43

Post by agent008t »

lucideer wrote: post #39
Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#44

Post by imgabe »

grive wrote: post #35
imgabe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of things like nightclubs is a reason there is demand for the housing. A city with only housing is not one that anyone would want to live in.

False dichotomy. You can close all the city's nightclubs and you wouldn't have a city with only housing. Only a very small subset of people living in the city will use nightclubs. It is reasonable that they are not given priority over things essential to living (housing, accomodations, transport, public services, etc..).

Nightclubs are one thing. I said "a" reason, not "the" reason. People don't go to the expense and trouble of living in cities because they have the bare essentials of keeping yourself alive. That is available in any town.

People move to the city because of things to do which includes nightclubs, restaurants, museums, theater, sports venues, cultural events, etc.

If all you want is a bunch of houses and roads connecting them and basic public services, you can get that for a fraction of the price in the suburbs.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#45

Post by Truskova »

dgellow wrote: post #26
imgabe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of things like nightclubs is a reason there is demand for the housing. A city with only housing is not one that anyone would want to live in.

Nightclubs also mean drunk people, which correlates with broken glass being spread around and aggressive behaviors. I’m quite happy to live in a neighborhood in Berlin that doesn’t have the active nightlife the city is famous for!

The Irish are pretty nice when they are drunk. Not all ofc, but with the amount of alcohol been drunk here in Dublin, the amount of drunk fights and things like that is quite low. At least in city centre. Lived in the Docks for 3 years and every weekend was out in town.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#46

Post by Truskova »

imgabe wrote: post #44
grive wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy. You can close all the city's nightclubs and you wouldn't have a city with only housing. Only a very small subset of people living in the city will use nightclubs. It is reasonable that they are not given priority over things essential to living (housing, accomodations, transport, public services, etc..).

Nightclubs are one thing. I said "a" reason, not "the" reason. People don't go to the expense and trouble of living in cities because they have the bare essentials of keeping yourself alive. That is available in any town. People move to the city because of things to do which includes nightclubs, restaurants, museums, theater, sports venues, cultural events, etc. If all you want is a bunch of houses and roads connecti…

that's a good point. But also people move because of jobs, higher salaries and adequate living conditions (including housing cost). The last one can't be said about Dublin. Lots of friends of mine moved back to their countries even though wages were lower, but considering prices for food, entertainment and rent at the end of the month they have more money in the pocket.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#47

Post by dubliner9039 »

agent008t wrote: post #43
lucideer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

It's a very typical pattern in speculative finance

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#48

Post by dubliner9039 »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #6
Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

Why isn't the city allowed to be denser?

Pure speculation. Like in many other cities the density is limited, often with silly excuses, in order to drive up the market.

Home owners, including large financial groups, sustain this policy.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#49

Post by dubliner9039 »

Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

> is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl

Don't confuse density with its opposite, sprawling. Irish and british cities often have large, low density, horrible sprawls.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#50

Post by nizmow »

dubliner9039 wrote: post #47
agent008t wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

It's a very typical pattern in speculative finance

Also happens a lot in Sydney, for the same reasons.
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