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A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

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Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#31

Post by wheybags »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #6
Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

Why isn't the city allowed to be denser?

Partially because people don't want it to be, too. Irish people have an obsession with land, and see any dwelling that isn't at least a semidetached house with a back garden as a "temporary space" for students and unmarried young couples. We just don't like apartments.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#33

Post by Nilef »

dgellow wrote: post #26
imgabe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of things like nightclubs is a reason there is demand for the housing. A city with only housing is not one that anyone would want to live in.

Nightclubs also mean drunk people, which correlates with broken glass being spread around and aggressive behaviors. I’m quite happy to live in a neighborhood in Berlin that doesn’t have the active nightlife the city is famous for!

Mind if I ask which area? Planning a move soon!

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#34

Post by alexgmcm »

narrator wrote: post #23

Tech workers move into a city and drive up rents. They complain about lack of density driving rents up. Meanwhile, New York and Chicago are not really tech hubs, even though they have dense downtowns. Hong Kong should be the center of the tech universe with all that density, but alas it is not. Maybe the thing that makes tech workers want to live and work somewhere is lack of density?

Given many tech workers can work remotely it seems bizarre that we even need to live in city centres.

But alas, businesses still want everyone in the office (often all the time as well).

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#35

Post by grive »

imgabe wrote: post #11
CydeWeys wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. And when space is at such a premium, and it's possible to build up as much as demand warrants, why exactly should nightclubs be prioritized over, say, people's housing? Perhaps the fact that they're diminishing in number reflects the simple fact that housing is a better (and more economic) use of limited space? It sounds like they're not allowing enough construction to meet demand, and then being shocked w…

The existence of things like nightclubs is a reason there is demand for the housing. A city with only housing is not one that anyone would want to live in.

False dichotomy. You can close all the city's nightclubs and you wouldn't have a city with only housing.

Only a very small subset of people living in the city will use nightclubs. It is reasonable that they are not given priority over things essential to living (housing, accomodations, transport, public services, etc..).

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#36

Post by purple_ducks »

wheybags wrote: post #31
dajohnson89 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't the city allowed to be denser?

Partially because people don't want it to be, too. Irish people have an obsession with land, and see any dwelling that isn't at least a semidetached house with a back garden as a "temporary space" for students and unmarried young couples. We just don't like apartments.

> We just don't like apartments.

People have legitimate reasons for not liking apartments in Dublin of which noise is a major reason.

Lax planning & building regs. dictated to politicians by developers ensured that apartments were small and had neighbours on pretty much every side.

Most people who left apartments did so for valid reasons, not an obsession with land.

Living long term in 98% of apartments in Dublin would ruin your quality of life.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#37

Post by dgellow »

Nilef wrote: post #33
dgellow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nightclubs also mean drunk people, which correlates with broken glass being spread around and aggressive behaviors. I’m quite happy to live in a neighborhood in Berlin that doesn’t have the active nightlife the city is famous for!

Mind if I ask which area? Planning a move soon!

Alt-Treptow, more precisely on the west of Treptower Park.

People in the neighborhood are mostly families.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#38

Post by Arbalest »

grive wrote: post #35
imgabe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of things like nightclubs is a reason there is demand for the housing. A city with only housing is not one that anyone would want to live in.

False dichotomy. You can close all the city's nightclubs and you wouldn't have a city with only housing. Only a very small subset of people living in the city will use nightclubs. It is reasonable that they are not given priority over things essential to living (housing, accomodations, transport, public services, etc..).

Agreed. Lets get some stats of the distribution of jobs and average commute times and see how that comes out then vs now.

Edit: Also worth noting is the daylife, shall we say. That is, cafes and the like are a lot more popular than they used to be.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#39

Post by lucideer »

Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin.

There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such as Sandyford and Cherrywood (these three areas, along with East Point, also happen to be where much of the tech boom is focused). So your denser/higher suggestion is being done and is having no affect—residential rents in these areas are the highest in the city, and much of the units available are left empty as a result.

Meanwhile, in terms of actual supply, even outside of those areas, Dublin has an estimated 40000 vacant residential units, and plenty of vacant commercial units on top of that.

The primary reason for this is that rent prices are not demand-based as much property is financialised—rent isn't a driver for owners, and there are little to no penalties for lack of tenancy, as other cities have.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#40

Post by CalRobert »

Macha wrote: post #2

Dublin has been having a bit of a boom (of which tech is a major driver) in the last decade, but this just feels like another symptom of the city which is not allowed to build denser or to sprawl with the result being anything less profitable in terms of land value is getting pushed out of the city (including many families who have lived their behind) while rents reach some of the highest levels in Europe

Indeed. If you like ~60% of SF rents with ~39% of SF pay it's the city for you.

I still like it here, but I have a flat that I got crazy cheap in 2013 and is rent controlled (incidentally, a horrifically stupid policy enacted _especially_ badly here, making the housing crisis even worse). I also just got a remote job and bought a house in Offaly.

I used to encourage people to come to Dublin because it offered better QOL than the bay (I like not being annoyed on weekends and holidays, and that even my non-tech-worker wife gets a month off a year by law) but I really can't any more unless your housing is arranged or you have a fantastic (California-level) offer

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