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Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

latimes.com

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Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#211

Post by ibrault »

blobbers wrote: post #184

Pretty sure Los Angeles had bad traffic way before Uber and Lyft arrived. I distinctly remember staring out of the Hilton at Universal City in 2006, on my first visit to California, with a group of Canadians marveling that there could be a traffic jam at 10PM at night.

I don't think they're trying to argue that Uber and Lyft created LA traffic but I would agree that their arrival put more cars on the roads. There's a huge market of people who are willing to pay a little extra to avoid the hassle of LA public transportation and considering that, in general, people Uber to busy places (LAX, downtown, etc.), it's bringing more cars onto the already clogged roads that wouldn't be there otherwise.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#212

Post by integrate-this »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #154
integrate-this wrote: post #88

I'm a LA resident. People in this city like to talk about congestion as though they see it as a problem, but they don't actually see it as a problem. Only people in the valley see it as a problem because there are limited choke points into and out of LA proper which keep people from getting to work. LA's limited transportation infrastructure prevents DTLA's homeless from getting to Beverly Hills, Long Beach's gang-re…

> LA's limited transportation infrastructure prevents DTLA's homeless from getting to Beverly Hills, Long Beach's gang-related activity from getting to Brentwood, etc. Gangsters have cars and don't rely on public transportation. DTLA homeless can and do use the MTA bus that goes literally from downtown to Beverly Hills. Care to clarify your comment?

No, your perception of LA's public transportation is completely out of touch with reality.

Subway and train systems are fundamentally different modes of transit than bus systems. They are more accessible, run on regular schedules, and they are anonymous.

The urban poor in other cities utilize them disproportionately which is why Beverly Hills shuts down every hint of a conversation of adding public transit connection beyond commuter buses.

It's too bad if you're offended by what I said, but LA has more nimby's per capita than anywhere I have lived which is exactly why we do not have a public transportation system.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#213

Post by foepys »

mikeash wrote: post #187
xvedejas wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also require more gas per mile. It seems like it should roughly add up to paying a few more times than cars (they're a few times less fuel efficient).

Yes, the average car in the US gets about 25MPG, while the average tractor trailer is 6MPG, so about 4x the fuel per mile. Accounting for the higher tax rate, they’re paying maybe 5x the tax per mile, while causing maybe 5,000x the damage.

You could tax trucks like 1000 times more. But don't expect the butter and milk to stay the same price.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#214

Post by jacobolus »

perl4ever wrote: post #53
shereadsthenews wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American public is unbelievably misinformed. Public opposition to an idea indicates only how much cable TV the public has been watching recently and says little about the merits of the idea. Just as an example of such a thing, the median survey respondent believes that foreign aid is the largest component of federal spending, and the overwhelming majority are against increasing it. However when those same people…

"The American public is unbelievably misinformed." This may be true without implying any defense of something that is contrary to the public will. The public can be totally awful and that doesn't mean people who have contempt for the public are any good.

I don’t see how saying that “public will is an impediment to solving traffic congestion” indicates contempt for the public. It seems like a straight-forward factual statement, and not a particularly controversial one.

After we acknowledge that “public will” is an impediment, we can then probe whether the problem is really so bad after all, what “public will” really means, whether it is self-contradictory, how strongly entrenched those interests/ideas are, whether there are ways of reframing the conversation to significantly sway public perception and action, and so on.

It might turn out that everyone loves griping about traffic congestion but isn’t really too bothered. Or that “public will” is just reflexive opposition to misunderstood alternatives conditioned by decades of deliberate propaganda. Or that “public will” is very weakly held and malleable if an alternative proposal does a charismatic marketing blitz. Or that the disparate powerful interest groups involved are in direct opposition and political progress working towards compromise is at a total impasse and impossible. Or ...

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#215

Post by woolvalley »

reaperducer wrote: post #110
SilasX wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's misleading -- yes, in the aggregate, gas taxes cover only part of the expenses, but that's not because of personal cars . Damage on the roads -- and thus maintenance costs -- scales with the 4th power of weight per axle. So the damage is virtually all from large trucks, with sedans and SUVs as a rounding error. If you were to apportion out the maintenance cost due to personal cars, they are overpaying.

So the damage is virtually all from large trucks, with sedans and SUVs as a rounding error. Which is why the California tax on gasoline is 48.7¢/gallon and the California tax on diesel fuel is 67¢/gallon.[1] Federal tax on gasoline is 18.4¢/gallon, and diesel fuel is 24.4¢/gallon.[2] I'm not defending the trucking industry. I think more stuff should go by train instead. But truck fuel is taxed more heavily than car f…

What is more expensive, train or road maintenance? What gets better total utilization rates?

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#216

Post by buzer »

sgustard wrote: post #183
shereadsthenews wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas in Switzerland is currently about $9 USD per gallon (CHF 2.27 per liter), chiefly in taxes.

What's your average distance driven per year? In the US it's 13,476 miles (21k km).

In Finland, the price is currently about $6 per gallon. Average car drives about 10500 miles per year & there's about 0.49 cars per person.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#217

Post by Moru »

SilasX wrote: post #39
shereadsthenews wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel tax revenue and other direct user fees like annual registration in California amount to less than 25% of what the state and its cities pay to maintain the roads and streets. Roads are massively subsidized from general revenues. If you are proposing a $5/gallon fuel tax then I completely agree. That would be about equivalent to what other rich countries tax motor fuel and consistent with the state's greenhouse ga…

That's misleading -- yes, in the aggregate, gas taxes cover only part of the expenses, but that's not because of personal cars . Damage on the roads -- and thus maintenance costs -- scales with the 4th power of weight per axle. So the damage is virtually all from large trucks, with sedans and SUVs as a rounding error. If you were to apportion out the maintenance cost due to personal cars, they are overpaying.

Here in northern Sweden we have a lot of wear on the roads. After a few years you can clearly see where most drive because there is a deep depression after the wheels. If you drive a truck in the track you will notice that you don't fit, the distance is slightly smaller than the trucks wheel distance. It does however fit exactly for the cars.

We do however all have spikes on the cars in winter, I'm guessting this helps a lot. The trucks usually does not have spikes. There is a lot of trucks too, hauling wood out of the forests.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#219

Post by andys627 »

foepys wrote: post #213
mikeash wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the average car in the US gets about 25MPG, while the average tractor trailer is 6MPG, so about 4x the fuel per mile. Accounting for the higher tax rate, they’re paying maybe 5x the tax per mile, while causing maybe 5,000x the damage.

You could tax trucks like 1000 times more. But don't expect the butter and milk to stay the same price.

Butter and milk that don't have to travel as far by road would be cheaper. So much of our national Walmartification is possible because of roads are subsidized.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#220

Post by adrianN »

briandear wrote: post #66
shereadsthenews wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel tax revenue and other direct user fees like annual registration in California amount to less than 25% of what the state and its cities pay to maintain the roads and streets. Roads are massively subsidized from general revenues. If you are proposing a $5/gallon fuel tax then I completely agree. That would be about equivalent to what other rich countries tax motor fuel and consistent with the state's greenhouse ga…

Those roads are what allow stuff to be delivered. How do you ship an air conditioning unit on a bike path? The point is that the roads serve commerce and a tax on roads is really a tax on everything. Roads aren’t exactly massively subsidized — the commerce they generate results in taxes. Tax revenue generated per mile driven is far greater than any supposed subsidy. We could make an argument that schools are massivel…

Taxing vehicle use reduces vehicle use. That's quite important if you want to do something about global warming. Gasoline in Berlin costs $5.75 but I can still order stuff from Amazon.

As for transporting air conditioning units, trailers and cargo bikes are a thing. You can move a refrigerator by bike

https://www.bikesatwork.com/blog/moving-a-refrigerator-by-bi...

Electric assist bicycles can transport even more cargo.

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