Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads • Hacker News Board

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#181

Post by twblalock » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:12 AM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #16

ars wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is to lower demand by raising the cost of driving - ie. significant congestion pricing (tolls) across the metro All that does is increase the cost of living. Either people need to drive or they don't. People don't drive just for the fun of it anymore. And if you succeed and do manage to reduce travel you also managed to reduce economic activity. If you goal is to get people to switch, then you have to do it on the…

Which is why I included the second part of my statement, which you did not quote: we would need to use the proceeds to dramatically increase the quality and quantity of alternatives to driving so that people had a realistic choice. I totally agree with you that people are driving mostly because they have to, not for fun. However, retrofitting car-oriented development to be viable for non-car users is exceptionally di…

Public transit has to happen first.

If you introduce congestion charges without also providing a functional public transit alternative you'll be voted out of office. Plain and simple.

Congestion charges worked in London, for example, because public transit is amazing there and people could stop driving without decreasing their quality of life. Yet it was still a source of much controversy in London at the time. What are people supposed to do in LA -- walk everywhere?

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#182

Post by nodesocket » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #86

kbos87 wrote: post #65

Amen. Uber and Lyft are adding congestion to our roads and undermining public transportation, all while profiting off public infrastructure and a class of driver “partners” who incur all of the costs for a razor thin upside. Id like to see the start of a state owned rideshare network with specially zoned drop off, pick up, and lane privileges that Uber and Lyft don’t get access to.

> Id like to see the start of a state owned rideshare network with specially zoned drop off, pick up, and lane privileges that Uber and Lyft don’t get access to. Uber and Lyft exist because the state didn't build one of those. In fact the state has built a completely inadequate public transit system in LA. Uber and Lyft are widely used because people in LA don't have an alternative.

Private companies innovate and solve problems at rapid pace and huge scale while governments get bogged down and come up with solutions such as high-speed trains that get indefinitely delayed, outrageously expensive, and ultimately cancelled. When those all fail, they just shug and say tax it.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#183

Post by sgustard » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

shereadsthenews wrote: post #94

briandear wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those roads are what allow stuff to be delivered. How do you ship an air conditioning unit on a bike path? The point is that the roads serve commerce and a tax on roads is really a tax on everything. Roads aren’t exactly massively subsidized — the commerce they generate results in taxes. Tax revenue generated per mile driven is far greater than any supposed subsidy. We could make an argument that schools are massivel…

Gas in Switzerland is currently about $9 USD per gallon (CHF 2.27 per liter), chiefly in taxes.

What's your average distance driven per year? In the US it's 13,476 miles (21k km).

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#184

Post by blobbers » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:20 AM UTC

Pretty sure Los Angeles had bad traffic way before Uber and Lyft arrived.

I distinctly remember staring out of the Hilton at Universal City in 2006, on my first visit to California, with a group of Canadians marveling that there could be a traffic jam at 10PM at night.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#185

Post by liability » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:21 AM UTC

.Bring back street cars!

Forget hyperloops and similar gadgetbahn bullshit. The solution isn't exotic, it's mundane. Street cars work damn well if you treat them as legitimate transit, not a tourist attraction. You can even bury them using cut-and-cover if the situation really calls for it. Forget microtunnel bullshit, that have ultra-expensive stations never mentioned by the advocates

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#186

Post by blobbers » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:22 AM UTC

blobbers wrote: post #184

Pretty sure Los Angeles had bad traffic way before Uber and Lyft arrived. I distinctly remember staring out of the Hilton at Universal City in 2006, on my first visit to California, with a group of Canadians marveling that there could be a traffic jam at 10PM at night.

Also of note... don't most people use Uber Pool to save a few $?

Just a guess but if the route planning models are good then an uberpool with 2 passengers + driver qualifies for 3+ carpools and will be much faster than a car that doesn't qualify for carpool with a single passenger and driver.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#187

Post by mikeash » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:23 AM UTC

xvedejas wrote: post #178

mikeash wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s taxed slightly more heavily. But trucks cause literally thousands of times more damage than cars.

They also require more gas per mile. It seems like it should roughly add up to paying a few more times than cars (they're a few times less fuel efficient).

Yes, the average car in the US gets about 25MPG, while the average tractor trailer is 6MPG, so about 4x the fuel per mile. Accounting for the higher tax rate, they’re paying maybe 5x the tax per mile, while causing maybe 5,000x the damage.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#188

Post by rb666 » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

Fuel is still extremely cheap in the US compared to more modern countries. It does not cover proper infrastructure, as can be witnessed in the US anywhere.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#189

Post by pishpash » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

thegayngler wrote: post #162

themoonbus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "even with higher pricing", but are also saying that higher pricing (due to taxes) would ruin the services? Uber and Lyft fares are unsustainably low right now, and at their current prices, they depress public transit interest and ridership. But what happens in 5 years when these ride sharing companies need to turn a profit? Self driving cars is potentially a solution, I suppose, but will it be ready at that…

I think the popularity of Uber and Lyft is a direct result of the lack of adequate city transit solutions. If big city transit was robust and at least at the level of NYC or more people would likely opt for it and the big cities could plan their real estate around it better.

Not really. In transit poor cities people own cars and drive their own cars. In transit rich cities you can feasibly live without a car and use rideshare to fill in the occasional gap. Transit and rideshare are complementary. Only rich people and businesses use rideshare as chauffeur rather than necessary transportation.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#190

Post by liability » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

ars wrote: post #14

nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

They really said that? Your local pizza place also uses public roads, and they get the profit. What kind of stupid.........sigh. The point of having public roads is that it benefits the city by increasing economic output. Did he forget that there are PEOPLE in those Uber and Lyft cars? Those same people he is supposed to serve? Or does he think the cars are driving around for no purpose making profit the whole time?

Politicians don't serve the people, they serve themselves and seek reelection. Sometimes it happens to be the case that seeking reelection motivates serving the people, but that is nothing more than a happy coincidence. Sometimes a dictator earnestly wants to help his people; that too is a happy coincidence. The genuinely altruistic politician in a democracy is no more common than a genuinely altruistic dictator.