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How does the Hololens 2 matter?

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Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#61
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text readability in specific context was passable on the original so I think this should be pretty good! The problems are going to be more in that it’s not quite a desktop window manager yet. It’s not designed to be a screen replacement. That is coming in the next couple years, but the bumps you’ll experience to make it your environment involve implementing and establishing paradigms that don’t exist yet and are mayb…

It always surprises me how much these technologies try to run before they can walk. Giving people a great desktop experience equivalent to multiple high-end monitors just seems like the obvious first baby step. Everything else seems like fluff if they can't get that to be desirable.

A great desktop experience is hard. VR lens blur. AR display dimness and fov. Cost of resolution. Fixed focus depth. Heavy thing on your head. Tethered.

A nice VR gaming experience is hard. Immersive means you can't see the real world, so your balance rides on rendering, requiring high fps, low latency, and thus lots of gpu. Means a high bar for avoiding "immersion breaking" hardware and software visual oddities.

The perceived near-term market for VR gaming is larger than that of VR or AR desktops, so that set of hard has gotten investment, and the other, not so much.

Market structure, especially patents, discourages commercial exploration of smaller markets. Say you want to build and sell your great system, and that it happens to need eye tracking. One eye tracking provider sells very expensive systems to industry and government, and your volumes are far too small to interest them in cheaper. Its competitors have been bought by bigcos, and no longer offer you product. Patents, and your small market, block new competitors. So eye tracking is not available to you or your envisioned market.

Community communication infrastructure is poor. Suppose all the pieces exist somewhere. People interested in desktop experiences, willing to throw a few thousand dollars at panels, tethered gpus, eye tracking, and so on, willing to be uncomfortable, to look weird, to tolerate a regression in display quality; a 2K HMD with nice lenses; a similar 4K panel; the electronics to swap the panels; some tracking solution; and so on... Even if all those pieces exist, the communication infrastructure doesn't exist to pull them all together. Neither as forums, nor as markets.

The poor communication degrades professional understanding of the problem space. People are unclear on the dependency chains behind conventional wisdom. So high resolution is said to require eye tracking or high-end gpus. VR is said to require high frame rates. And the implicit assumption of immersive gaming is forgotten. I've found it ironic to read such, while in VR, running on an old laptop's integrated graphics, at 30 fps. Wishing someone offered an 4K panel conversion kit, so a few more pixels escaped blurry lenses. A panel I could still run on integrated graphics, albeit newer. So part of the failing to pull together opportunities, is failing to even see them.

Perhaps in an alternate universe, all patents are FRAND, all markets have an innovative churn of small businesses, and online forums implement the the many things we know how to do better, but don't. And there's been screen-comparable VR for years. But that's not where we're at.

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#62
post #42
post #39

Instead of getting rid of the keyboard, mouse and standard 2D display, why not start with augmenting the reality around those? Keep the keyboard, keep the mouse, keep the high-speed, high-definition display, there's nothing more efficient. Touchscreens don't even come close to matching that combo in any domain, let alone exceeding it. What chance do laggier, less touchable figments have? If you can't find something t…

Honestly, when I first heard about the Hololense project, I just wanted to be able to code in the ceiling while relaxing.

You should check out Virtual Desktop with the Oculus Go. It’s astonishing.

The Go’s screen is appreciably better than the Rift’s, and the network streaming utility that brings your Windows computer’s screen into the Go is excellent.

One thing that was interesting was the zen of using it instead of a monitor - it’s just you and your screen. Nothing else in visible space. With a pair of noise cancelling headphones, I’m convinced that this is the first glimmer of productivity in the commercial space for VR that has wide appeal.

I tried it for a fair amount of time and I’m convinced that when the Oculus Quest comes out, I’ll use that instead of a monitor for some of my work.

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#63
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always surprises me how much these technologies try to run before they can walk. Giving people a great desktop experience equivalent to multiple high-end monitors just seems like the obvious first baby step. Everything else seems like fluff if they can't get that to be desirable.

A great desktop experience is hard. VR lens blur. AR display dimness and fov. Cost of resolution. Fixed focus depth. Heavy thing on your head. Tethered. A nice VR gaming experience is hard. Immersive means you can't see the real world, so your balance rides on rendering, requiring high fps, low latency, and thus lots of gpu. Means a high bar for avoiding "immersion breaking" hardware and software visual oddities. The…

That alternate universe really did almost exist. You can still see the remnants over at http://www.nuigroup.com/go/lite.

10 years ago there was a booming scene of open source natural user interface projects. People building huge multitouch interfaces, experimenting, releasing open SLAM tools, and exploring what you could do with DIY AR/VR/projection maping/natural feature tracking/gesture interfaces. Post the success of the first Oculus dev release all of the forums went quiet, the git repos started being unmaintained and outright scrubbed. The main contributors to the community got scooped up by the motherships and any supporting technologies locked down in what felt like about six months to a year. Leap Motion was a standout company from that time. They have been selling the exact product they built then with almost no improvement until recently. Somehow they weathered the storm, didn't sell, and are doing some really neat stuff now. Structure IO took up the stewardship of OpenNI and if you look hard enough you can still find cross platform installers that have the banned original kinect tech that Apple bought and is extremely litigious about keeping off the internet.

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#65
Don't know if it's possible with Hololens, but one thing I thought would be pretty neat is a flight sim with physical instruments you can touch. Render the world outside the plane in a gaming rig and project it in Hololens as a video stream where the windows would be.

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#66
post #55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your idea is inherently visual or spatial, a keyboard is terrible and a mouse is clumsy. Try signing your name with a mouse. Try doing any of this with a keyboard: http://elevr.com/experimental-still-lifes-and-landscape-inte...

Try coding by voice.

It might not be as bad as you think:

https://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/6263-code...

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#67
post #62
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, when I first heard about the Hololense project, I just wanted to be able to code in the ceiling while relaxing.

You should check out Virtual Desktop with the Oculus Go. It’s astonishing. The Go’s screen is appreciably better than the Rift’s, and the network streaming utility that brings your Windows computer’s screen into the Go is excellent. One thing that was interesting was the zen of using it instead of a monitor - it’s just you and your screen. Nothing else in visible space. With a pair of noise cancelling headphones, I’m…

Do you feel side effects from over-stimulus of the brain? From my experience with VR, it seems like an hour is about all I can handle before my eyes start hurting. Whereas with AR/MR, I feel like the lack of visual input is better for nausea and strain.

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#68
I left this comment in a prior HoloLens related thread on HN the other day, but I'd like to reiterate (so I'll just copy/paste it) so I can get some more opinions on the concept. I'll add that the functionality I describe below would have limited use cases without a GPS or a device that's really useful/wearable outdoors and available to the public. But I think this should be the long term vision for holographics, as opposed to "apps" that run individual experiences.

> We need a search engine for holographic layer services. It would be like Google, but for MR experiences. Holographic services would use a protocol that defines a geofence to be discovered by the layer search engine's crawler over the internet (this could just be a meta tag on a classic website). The HoloLens or whatever MR device would continuously ping the search engine with its location, and the results would be ordered based on their relevance (size of geofence and proximity are good indicators). The MR device would then show the most relevant available layer in the corner of the FOV. Selecting the layer would allow enabling it either once or always, and the device would then deliver the holographic layer over the internet. The holographic layer would behave like a web service worker (in fact, it could be a web service worker) and would augment a shared experience which contains other active holographic layers. For example, your Google Maps holographic layer could be providing you with a path to walk to the nearest Starbucks, and once you're outside Starbucks, the Starbucks layer is also activated, which allows you to place an order.

> This concept of activated layers, I think, is a great way to avoid a future where we're being bombarded with augmented signage and unwanted experiences. In fact, you could go further and enable blocking notifications about specific/certain types of available services. (ie. don't notify me about bars or fast food restaurants.)

I also think this could have applications within intranet environments in corporate/enterprise contexts: several teams could each develop their own layers used for different purposes. That would make something like this worth while to pursue today, seeing as HL2 is solely targeting those environments for now.

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#69
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever watch a bartender ring up a complex order? That's a domain where touch exceeds keyboard / mouse hands down. Digital art, such as drawing (or even just whiteboarding an idea). There is no one universally great input method.

> Ever watch a bartender ring up a complex order? Too many times to count and I'd disagree it's better than a keyboard equivalent. It's easier for new/casual staff and can be easier for visual people but it's awful compared to someone with a bit of training for complex things. They seem to fail at making the complex things achievable for the less trained as well IME. Plastering drink logos on big buttons is easy for…

I like TUIs because their limits have made their creators strive for extremely efficient UX.

Re: How does the Hololens 2 matter?

#70

I left this comment in a prior HoloLens related thread on HN the other day, but I'd like to reiterate (so I'll just copy/paste it) so I can get some more opinions on the concept. I'll add that the functionality I describe below would have limited use cases without a GPS or a device that's really useful/wearable outdoors and available to the public. But I think this should be the long term vision for holographics, as…

It doesn't matter if it is 'layers' or 'apps' basically the problem begins when you have more than one layer/app at a time.

So I guess for a long time we will stuck with one app a time, and some kind of manual switching.

Also there is privacy angle, I don't think nobody wants pinging their location all the time, maybe some QR code/ beacon solutions can help, but I am not much optimistic there too.

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