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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#271

Post by sib »

felipemnoa wrote: post #191
Stratoscope wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always interested in the issues around naming things. It is a tricky science that I wish I were better at. So I wonder if you could elaborate on what made the name a turnoff? Thanks!

Volt, sounds like a cheap knockoff of Tesla. That was the emotional response I got from it. I imagined that if they could not come up with a more original or cooler name then their car was probably like that too. I could almost see their reasoning for naming it volt: They figured that the Tesla company used that name because of Nikola Tesla, I guess they decided they too should use another name related to electricity…

I don't know about the "rest of the world" but I would be bet that, in December 2010, when the Volt started selling in the US, far more Americans knew that the word "Volt" related to electricity than had heard of Tesla and knew that that word related to electricity.

For me, the bigger issue was that the name - to me - implied that it was an electric car, not a hybrid, so it felt like unsubstantiated marketing spin.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#272

Post by hakfoo »

shawnz wrote: post #108
hakfoo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lost route IMO was modular batteries. Say your Model S has a bank replacable modules instead of a single monolith. These can be pulled and swapped with pre-charged cells in minutes. This also allows older packs to be pulled from circulation, removing the fear of aging batteries causing depreciation on the vehicle.

Why would you ever not want to swap the whole battery? They've demonstrated that a whole battery swap can be done in minutes. And the whole battery discharges/ages at the same rate, so there'd be no point in only swapping some of the modules.

The angle I was considering was size and weight. If you can keep the modules light enough to carry by hand, it means a lot less equipment for each swap facility.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#273

Post by turtlebits »

dmix wrote: post #4

Even the Bolt that is replacing the Volt as their go-to-EV is still losing money per car sold (for now): > An unnamed source cited by Bloomberg News estimates that General Motors is expected to take a loss of between US$8,000 and US$9,000 per Bolt sold. A GM spokesman first declined to comment on the expected profitability.[20] Opel refuted that in December 2016 and states that GM has battery cell costs of $130/kWh,…

Well compared to Tesla 3, the Bolt is quite a steal, I'm honestly surprised they aren't selling more.

I picked my base model 2018 Bolt for $31k, after discounts. (pretax). $23.5k after tax rebates.

Compare that to the Tesla Model 3 which is $44k and has about the same range. (Bolt 236mi , Model 3 249mi)

I'm not surprised GM is losing money on them when Tesla is having issues with profitability at their price point.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#274

Post by avs733 »

greglindahl wrote: post #229
jac_no_k wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding "novice and expert" mode. Default should be novice mode. Extra steps to go into "expert" mode. Examples I could think of: * Launch control (maximum acceleration from a stop.) * Track mode (turn down or disable stability control) * One pedal drive mode. (Nissan Leaf e-pedal or just B-mode for strong regen) Ah well... It would be interesting to hear more of the reasons behind decisions.

I suspect she was mainly talking about "no one pedal driving" as novice mode -- and I think it's a mistake to turn that off for novices, because it's something that drivers quickly adapt to having. And then love.

Actually I brought it up not her and got shot down.

One pedal was part of it as was how the gas engine was used and power scheduling...also when to use electric vsm internal combustion for heating, analog adjustment of regenerative braking, etc.

Give me the choice and I'll pick a steering wheel rivaling an f1 car...but you can't sell that in any way shape or form.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#275

Post by sharpneli »

hanging wrote: post #270
sharpneli wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that hybrid cars are geneally bit heavier. Mostly due to the battery though, partly offseted by not having to lug a traditional gearbox around. However, if you look at the mpg figures of, as an example, Toyota Prius with similarly sized traditional car you will notice that it indeed is worth the extra weight.

not having to lug a traditional gearbox around You mention the Prius. Are you unaware of the complexity of its complex, heavy drivetrain?[1] Much heavier than even a traditional gearbox. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive#Transmiss...

I am aware of it. I have a hybrid version of Auris myself. And it does indeed get better l/100km than the non hybrid variants of the same car. I track my consumption when filling and using odometer.

The drivertrain in the hsg is pretty much tje electrical motors. I did not say it is lighter. I said some of the weight is offseted by the fact that the ice part doesnt have to lug all the traditional components. Not completely offseted, just helped a bit.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#276

Post by londons_explore »

cowmix wrote: post #236
Shivetya wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tl;dr very long, owned a Volt, because of it bought a TM3 Owned a 2017 Chevrolet Volt, I made this choice because I wanted to "dip my toes" into the EV experience and only needing one car I needed one that could go anywhere. I make two trips per year by car one of which is thirteen hundred miles round trip. The fit and finish was very good for any car, it drove very well, and EV mode was an eye opener. Being in Georg…

As a current 2013 Volt and soon to be TM3 owner, I agree with most of what you say. However, the TM3 bluetooth integration doesn't need to do as much as the Volt because the built-in infotainment does so much.. phone integration is not really a big deal.

When the car is still in use in 15 years time, TM3 owners are going to be frustrated at the lack of carplay...

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#277

Post by Baeocystin »

walrus01 wrote: post #181
Baeocystin wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost certain they will. The tech they used isn't going anywhere. It's simply that no one buys sedans. I expect to see a Volt-powertrain-derived crossover or SUV soon.

No one buys small sedans for the American market, sure, but cars the size of a Yaris or Corolla seem to be wildly popular in the rest of the world.

If I'm reading this properly (and fair warning, there's a lot of data, I could easily be mistaken) it looks like sedans are dropping in popularity across the globe- but that 'mini-SUVs', crossovers, or whatever you call a small sedan-sized hatchback nowadays are gaining popularity.

http://carsalesbase.com/global-car-sales-2017/

Aside from the sedan question per-se, it's interesting to me see tastes change so rapidly.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#278

Post by logifail »

jdietrich wrote: post #249
logifail wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> high fuel costs mean that pure EVs already have a lower TCO than ICE vehicle Got a source for this claim? I bought a new ICE vehicle six months ago, in round figures it cost me $13,800 (that's the on the road price of the base model, including a couple of minor extras and all applicable taxes). The electric version of that exact same vehicle has a list price of $31,300. No, that isn't a typo. The salesman seemed fa…

Page 44 of the linked report. There's a full analysis at the link below. There are a huge number of variables (purchase cost, annual mileage, predicted depreciation, fuel and electricity pricing trends etc), but EVs match or exceed the TCO of comparable new ICE cars in a substantial number of scenarios in Europe. The key factor is fuel costs in Europe - even with oil at around $60 a barrel at the moment, you'll pay $…

> the linked report...

Am I reading page 43 right? The cost of the battery in the Volt is currently $12,300? That's almost exactly 90% of the selling price of my new ICE vehicle!

Q: What's the projected lifespan of the battery pack in a Volt?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#279

Post by jdietrich »

logifail wrote: post #278
jdietrich wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Page 44 of the linked report. There's a full analysis at the link below. There are a huge number of variables (purchase cost, annual mileage, predicted depreciation, fuel and electricity pricing trends etc), but EVs match or exceed the TCO of comparable new ICE cars in a substantial number of scenarios in Europe. The key factor is fuel costs in Europe - even with oil at around $60 a barrel at the moment, you'll pay $…

> the linked report... Am I reading page 43 right? The cost of the battery in the Volt is currently $12,300? That's almost exactly 90% of the selling price of my new ICE vehicle! Q: What's the projected lifespan of the battery pack in a Volt?

>Am I reading page 43 right? The cost of the battery in the Volt is currently $12,300? That's almost exactly 90% of the selling price of my new ICE vehicle!

Yup, and it's why falling battery costs are such a big deal for the EV industry. It's worth thinking about the battery as a pre-payment for fuel; it's very expensive up front, but it substantially reduces your cost per mile for the life of the car.

Q: What's the projected lifespan of the battery pack in a Volt?

The Bolt's battery pack has an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty, with a maximum capacity loss of 40% during that period. Data from Nissan Leaf owners suggests a capacity loss of about 20% over five years, while Tesla Model S owners have reported much lower capacity loss - sometimes as little as 10% after 150,000 miles. Pack longevity has been increasing due to better cell chemistry and improved thermal management, but only time will tell how well the Bolt's batteries age.

Nissan offer a refurbishment program for the Leaf, which will restore the pack to its original rated capacity for $2,850; I would expect most manufacturers to follow suit. Battery pack refurbishment is also available from a number of third-party providers. Given the excellent durability of the rest of the powertrain due to the very small number of moving parts, EVs may prove to be surprisingly durable - with a battery refurbishment after 10 years, an EV may give 20 years of good service. The Nissan Leaf has fairly high depreciation due to the poor initial range of earlier models, but Teslas seem to be holding their value fairly well.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#280

Post by EADGBE »

nimbius wrote: post #139

Disclosure: im an automotive engine mechanic by trade. The Volt was a political nightmare. trade rags beat this car night and day for being a fake. but honestly its a damn good car. it was never going to see tesla style torque or mileage but the people driving it werent the whole foods kind of crowd anyway. the hybrid electric was borne out of the need to create something that couldnt be patent-struck by toyota, whos…

I feel like the stale gas argument is one that isn't considered often. Especially with ethanol-blended fuels decreasing the shelf life even more.
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