Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

cbsnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 291 posts

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#261

Post by Reason077 »

speedplane wrote: post #162
zelos wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most ICE car owners only infrequently take long journeys. Sure, but when I do take a longer journey, I don't want to have to hire a car or something. I can see an EV currently being good for 90% of my journeys, but what about the ~8 journeys a year in the ~200 mile range, with the last 30 or so generally on steep/winding roads trying to find a cottage in the middle of nowhere? How practical is that currently? Edit:…

> How practical is that currently? It's not, but it could be. There are no fundamental technical barriers to overcome, just social ones.

I don't see any significant social barriers - it's just a matter of infrastructure. Drivers need to be able to depend on the availability of reliable chargers.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#262

Post by masonic »

sharpneli wrote: post #160
masonic wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of phev as replacing two cars Or as an ICE towing an EV, or vice-versa. You're lugging around both motors at all times.

Bit more than that. It’s just a hybrid car (like prius) with all the benefits of that like regenerative braking, but with larger batteries. Not as large as full ev.

And in both cases, you're carrying the full weight of two motors at all times. It's sort of like a Tesla carrying a gasoline can and a generator just for range anxiety. (In fact, that combination would weigh less than an ICE motor and fuel tank.)

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#263

Post by masonic »

derekp7 wrote: post #221
masonic wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV is a 50 mile technology Sssshhhh, don't tell Tesla or Hyundai that. PHEV is a solution looking for a problem. You only add a little bit more range versus a plain ICE, and that's at the expense of lugging around an extra motor and battery array. The whole carpool lane eligibility for hybrids is a crutch and the only selling distinction for PHEVs. (If you're driving far enough for a carpool lane to even matter, you'…

You could also say that having large batteries is a solution looking for a problem. If 95% of your driving is under 50 miles a day, then you are lugging around 150 miles worth of extra batteries (to get that 200 mile range) that still need a long charge cycle, where you could easily replace that 150 miles of batteries with an ICE that will get you unlimited miles with a 5-minute fuling stop in between. And still end…

Plug-in hybrids have not been a commercial success. If you take away the artificial carpool-lane eligibility, they almost vanish from individual purchase as a category (only taxi and commercial fleet demand would remain relevant).

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#264

Post by masonic »

javagram wrote: post #209
masonic wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV is a 50 mile technology Sssshhhh, don't tell Tesla or Hyundai that. PHEV is a solution looking for a problem. You only add a little bit more range versus a plain ICE, and that's at the expense of lugging around an extra motor and battery array. The whole carpool lane eligibility for hybrids is a crutch and the only selling distinction for PHEVs. (If you're driving far enough for a carpool lane to even matter, you'…

> If you're driving far enough for a carpool lane to even matter, you're going beyond your battery range on the trip... so you're ultimately releasing as much carbon.) I’d be surprised to see this is actually true, but I guess it depends on where you live. There are some cities where a long commute time can be significantly cut by an HOV/carpool lane, even if the number of miles traveled isn’t that great. If you have…

   If you have a 40 mile commute then the Volt can run on electric for pretty much the whole thing
... assuming that charging is always available at work/school and you don't go anywhere else either way.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#265

Post by sharpneli »

masonic wrote: post #262
sharpneli wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit more than that. It’s just a hybrid car (like prius) with all the benefits of that like regenerative braking, but with larger batteries. Not as large as full ev.

And in both cases, you're carrying the full weight of two motors at all times. It's sort of like a Tesla carrying a gasoline can and a generator just for range anxiety. (In fact, that combination would weigh less than an ICE motor and fuel tank.)

It is true that hybrid cars are geneally bit heavier. Mostly due to the battery though, partly offseted by not having to lug a traditional gearbox around.

However, if you look at the mpg figures of, as an example, Toyota Prius with similarly sized traditional car you will notice that it indeed is worth the extra weight.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#266

Post by bluedino »

pinko wrote: post #258
bluedino wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I make two trips per year by car one of which is thirteen hundred miles round trip. Why not rent a car or fly?

The friction, risk, and uncertainty of rental cars sucks . Friction: pricing is unpredictable between and within vendors so you have to waste time comparison shopping on ad-laden sites to avoid getting screwed, taxes and fees and insurance costs and benefits are often opaque, and you have to somehow get to and from the rental office which can be far away (Enterprise's pickups sort of kind of help with this but need t…

I own a a car and use it every day, but if I’m traveling more than ~600 miles (or at all? for work), I just rent one. It’s fairly cheap and it keeps the miles off mine, plus if I break down or get in a wreck I just call Budget back up and get another car instead of dealing with my broken car being two states away.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#267

Post by erik_seaberg »

anovikov wrote: post #260
erik_seaberg wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hybrids (or battery swaps) make sense until apartments and employers have power outlets for every parking space.

Not really. For daily driving cycle, you will have enough of battery for charging just once per day, overnight, if you can't do it then plug-in hybrid is of no value to you compared to an ICE car (or a traditional non-plugin hybrid), simply because you don't plug in. For long journeys, you need fast chargers anyway, and you mostly have it on highways.

Non-plugin hybrids had all the drawbacks of gas engine drivetrains, but I view a plug-in hybrid as an electric car with a backup plan. Pure electric car owners are betting they'll never need that, but some of them are wrong.

That said, I've had a reasonably cheap and reliable used Elantra for a while, and I'm holding off on these until the market settles.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#268

Post by javagram »

masonic wrote: post #264
javagram wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're driving far enough for a carpool lane to even matter, you're going beyond your battery range on the trip... so you're ultimately releasing as much carbon.) I’d be surprised to see this is actually true, but I guess it depends on where you live. There are some cities where a long commute time can be significantly cut by an HOV/carpool lane, even if the number of miles traveled isn’t that great. If you have…

If you have a 40 mile commute then the Volt can run on electric for pretty much the whole thing ... assuming that charging is always available at work/school and you don't go anywhere else either way.

Even half the trip as electric is halved carbon emissions from the car, so I don’t understand the statement that carbon emissions between a PHEV and a ICE are the same in the end (which is what I understand you to be saying by “so you're ultimately releasing as much carbon”)

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#269

Post by michaelt »

tomatocracy wrote: post #257
cptskippy wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and at the same time those inadequacies aren't highlighted constructively. The comments are typically vague dismissals of the technology outright with unhelpful remarks like "this doesn't work for me (and probably not you) because of xyz boundary condition." I would much rather these people not say anything but ideally I would like to hear the feedback be more positive or suggestive in nature like "I…

Where I think I disagree is that I don't see this as some corner case - to me it's one of the primary use cases for owning a car, and I'd wager the same is true for the population at large - perhaps even second most common after commuting. A huge number of people have relatives/family/friends a 3+ hour drive away. The most constructive answer, I think, is to prefer plug-in hybrids as a drive train option (perhaps the…

The solution I prefer is EVs with enough range for 3-4 hours of highway driving, that can regain a decent fraction of that range in the duration of a 10-15 minute toilet break.

Alas, we don't yet have battery tech that combines a 3-4 hour range with recharging at 16x the rate it discharged at, at a price people can afford :)

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#270

Post by hanging »

sharpneli wrote: post #265
masonic wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in both cases, you're carrying the full weight of two motors at all times. It's sort of like a Tesla carrying a gasoline can and a generator just for range anxiety. (In fact, that combination would weigh less than an ICE motor and fuel tank.)

It is true that hybrid cars are geneally bit heavier. Mostly due to the battery though, partly offseted by not having to lug a traditional gearbox around. However, if you look at the mpg figures of, as an example, Toyota Prius with similarly sized traditional car you will notice that it indeed is worth the extra weight.

  not having to lug a traditional gearbox around
You mention the Prius. Are you unaware of the complexity of its complex, heavy drivetrain?[1] Much heavier than even a traditional gearbox.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive#Transmiss...

Post reply on HN