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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#121
post #82

That’s too bad, the Volt’s powertrain made a lot of sense for those aren’t able to get an EV due to it being impractical (Many apartments). What’s interesting is that Honda’s hybrids have basically the same drivetrain as the now discontinued Volt. They too discontinued (edit: some) of their plugin hybrids, which is also too bad. Looks like the Prius plugin is gonna be the car to pick for a plug-in hybrid. I wish it l…

The Honda Clarity is their current plug-in hybrid (unfortunately not available in the Accord any more)

and sadly not as good looking as the Volt.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#122

This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream. With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 mile…

It seems most manufacturers, GM included, disagree with that and are mostly betting on full electric at this point. To the point where they are shutting down everything else (GM, Ford). And the ones that aren't (yet) are dealing with some serious challenges in the market. Battery production is indeed the limit. Or put differently, all EV manufacturers seem to be having the "problem" of their products being a very easy sell despite the cost, limitations, etc. For a lot of manufacturers that's not exactly something they are used to.

PHEVs are something that some manufacturers market to extend the runway of their legacy technology while they figure out how to get to fully electric. There are a lot of manufacturers that have stopped talking about that now that they have fully electric vehicles coming to the market. They'll be around for a while of course.

GM seems to have concluded that it makes no sense whatsoever to keep on subsidizing volt sales at a loss and the product simply makes no sense at its real price. The only reason they are keeping the bolt around (which has the same problem) is to have something to sell while they figure out how to build EVs properly so that they can make a profit. Buying a phev of course makes a lot of sense in the same way that an ICE car is still a sensible purchase. It's just that EVs dropping in price is making Phev related investments not a solid long term plan for most manufacturers. They'll milk it while they can but at this point they need to be mostly investing in EVs in order to stay in business long term.

Most EVs right now are indeed on the expensive side. This is a problem for manufacturers because expensive ICE cars used to be how they made money. That segment has been seriously impacted by Tesla coming out of nowhere and taking a huge portion of that market. That's why they are all scrambling to get in on that action. They have no other choice. The net effect of this will be that economies of scale will kick in and production of cheap and mid range EVs is where the action is going to be next.

You seem to insist range anxiety is a thing. It's not much of an issue for most drivers. It's a lot less dramatic than running out of fuel. Running out of fuel can cause all sorts of issues with cars. E.g. with a Diesel you can't just refuel the car and get going again. Running out of battery on the other hand is fixed by ... plugging it in. Worst case you have to call somebody to get you towed (or plugged into a mobile battery). And the car will tell you this is about to happen long before it happens. Only if you ignore all the warnings that you are about to run out of power and fail to address that, will you run out of power.

In any case, taking a 30 minute break after a long drive is a pretty good idea and probably something you should do regardless of your fuel/electricity needs. So, not the end of the world. Also, most people don't drive that far that often. So, having a lot of anxiety on this front is kind of irrational. Some people do drive this much of course. In that case they'll still love electric because of the fuel bills and indeed may spend a bit more on something with a bigger battery and higher charging capacity.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#123
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, only in California. (Anything below 6 USD/gal is quite cheap here.)

Uh, I live in California, and all the signs I see here say $3.something for gas.

I _suspect_ the person you're replying to doesn't live in the United States, given their conspicuous use of "USD". Even the most expensive gasoline in the US is dirt cheap compared to many countries across Europe. According to the somewhat amusingly named globalpetrolprices.com, gas prices in Germany were $5.62/gallon, the UK $5.75/gallon, and Finland $6.07 a gallon. Even in Russia, far and away the cheapest, gas was still $2.56 a gallon; of the countries they're tracking, only Russia and Ukraine would be cheaper than California. They also track prices across North America, and most countries here, including Canada and Mexico, are more expensive than California, too.

I'm not entirely sure whether we have more highly subsidized gas prices than most of the developed world, lower gas taxes, or a bit of both, but our low prices—even in California—sure seem to be an anomaly. if we paid closer to the average first world price for gasoline, hybrids and electrics would suddenly get _way_ more attractive, and we might be a lot less keen on SUVs.

(Back somewhat more on point for the linked article, I'd have considered a Chevy Volt if they were just a little closer to my price range. I drive enough—and occasionally in rural enough areas—that with the possible exception of Teslas, pure EVs are still a no-go for me, and Teslas are still out of my budget. And, frankly, I don't at all like the "shove everything possible onto one big touchscreen" approach to automotive UX design.)

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#124
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically speaking, how important is it that a car last 20 years? If it only lasts 10 years, which current EVs seem on track for, so what? You're not actually out that much on an annualized basis. And don't forget that years 11 through 20 on an ICE car are quite a bit more expensive maintenance-wise. Depending on how much you drive, two electric cars over 20 years might well be cheaper than one gasoline car lasti…

> Depending on how much you drive, two electric cars over 20 years might well be cheaper than one gasoline car lasting that long. This might be true if it weren't for the fact that the price of a new car keeps going up as a percentage of median income rather than down. I had two cars bought new from the late 1990's (one finally got totaled). The annual maintenance cost could be quite high (I calculated that about $4K…

Ironically I just sold a 2001 Chevy Impala after the transmission went and bought a 2018 holdover Volt to replace it. But those calculations are close to mine. In the case of the Impala, the car with a working trans was worth $3500 and the trans fix was $2300, plus it needed new tires which runs about $400 and little things like sensors etc. were starting to go....my rule of thumb is that when yearly repairs start to get over the 50% of the car's value it's time to let it go.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#125
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was interested in the Volt myself but after sitting in one decided it was too small. It is essentially a Chevy Cruze body with the Voltec drivetrain. I was banging my head into the roof getting in, while on a similarly small vehicle (Prius) I had ample room. The Volt it sleeker and much better on the eyes than a Prius, but I need my daily driver to have good utility.

I find it interesting that you think that the Prius is a small vehicle. To me it seems that the Prius is on the large end of mid-sized vehicles. A small car to me would be something like a Daihatsu Cuore or a VW Lupo.

Could be chatting with a taller person.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#126
post #7

It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. However, it was probably inevitable once batteries got good enough. Removing the combustion engine and replacing it with more batteries probably saves far too much money. The current problem I have with electric vehicles is simply that right now they are "5 ye…

Realistically speaking, how important is it that a car last 20 years? If it only lasts 10 years, which current EVs seem on track for, so what? You're not actually out that much on an annualized basis. And don't forget that years 11 through 20 on an ICE car are quite a bit more expensive maintenance-wise. Depending on how much you drive, two electric cars over 20 years might well be cheaper than one gasoline car lasti…

The ICE car is still going to be cheaper overall beyond 10 until major problems hit, especially if you buy them when they are 4-5 years old where someone else took the major depreciation hit. You can save even more if you're able to do some of the work yourself.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#127
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, only in California. (Anything below 6 USD/gal is quite cheap here.)

Uh, I live in California, and all the signs I see here say $3.something for gas.

I believe the GP refers to the world outside North America.

Converted to your units, yesterday's average for my region was $6.12/gal.

Edit: the comment reply form could show other replies, I find myself dupeing a lot because I think I'm the first one to it, with the view of no replies 10 minutes ago.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#128
post #115

Best car I've ever owned from a reliability and fun-to-drive perspective. A bit cramped, but it's my commuter car, so don't care. I drive 100+km a day and charge at both ends, and most weeks use no gas. But still have the flexibility to take very long road trips without the hassle of stopping at DC fast charge stations every couple hundred km. When this one dies someday, I'll probably buy another used one if I can fi…

> fun-to-drive perspective What do you consider by fun to drive?

I have a Gen 2. 0-30 in roughly 3 seconds. 0-60 in 7.5 to 8.0. Very zippy in traffic, instant acceleration and the handling is on par with some BMW's.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#129
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

only in california. i paid 2.19/gallon last time I filled gas in midwest.

That's still a whole lot more than the equivalent cost in electric for the same miles.

When I do the math I find the cost per mile for electric is 80% the cost of gas. That's based off 35 mpg car, $2.20 gas, 60kWh electric battery with 238 miles of range, 10% loss in the charger, and $0.19 per kWh. All in all about $100-$200 saved a year. Cost of electric is higher than typical, but that's where I'm at.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#130
post #4

Even the Bolt that is replacing the Volt as their go-to-EV is still losing money per car sold (for now): > An unnamed source cited by Bloomberg News estimates that General Motors is expected to take a loss of between US$8,000 and US$9,000 per Bolt sold. A GM spokesman first declined to comment on the expected profitability.[20] Opel refuted that in December 2016 and states that GM has battery cell costs of $130/kWh,…

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

Especially given the innovation in EVs around the world. The Hyundai Kona / Kia Niro are formidable enough, with their super fast-charging successor around the corner.
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