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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#61

Post by toomuchtodo »

tzs wrote: post #59
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla sells ~25k vehicles a month to customers (enough that they’ve cannablized sales from BMW in California) who don’t mind stopping at fast DC charging stations. The market has spoken (wrt EV vs PHEV). While the Volt had a niche, it seems it wasn’t competitive enough versus newer market competitors.

...and around 475k ICE vehicles a month are sold in the US. PHEVs seem like a nice option for the people who find that an EV is not suitable for their long distance travel, but would like something environmentally friendly for their short distance needs, and do not want to have two cars.

Buy a Prius and carbon offsets until EVs advance further if you’re absolutely set on not wanting to fast charge when traveling and use a liquid fuel instead. Don’t demand a niche product that no one wants to build.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#62

Post by jdietrich »

jaytaylor wrote: post #12
dmix wrote: post #4

Even the Bolt that is replacing the Volt as their go-to-EV is still losing money per car sold (for now): > An unnamed source cited by Bloomberg News estimates that General Motors is expected to take a loss of between US$8,000 and US$9,000 per Bolt sold. A GM spokesman first declined to comment on the expected profitability.[20] Opel refuted that in December 2016 and states that GM has battery cell costs of $130/kWh,…

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

See page 42 of the source report. UBS and Munro predict a 33% reduction in battery costs due to broader industry pricing trends, with a further reduction of 10-25% on powertrain components due to economies of scale and technology improvements.

The report argues that the Bolt is already profitable on a contribution basis (sale price - cost of goods sold), meaning that GM make money on every Bolt they sell. What makes the Bolt unprofitable is the high per-unit share of R&D costs and depreciation due to low volumes - the Bolt isn't selling in sufficient quantities to recoup the cost of developing it and putting it into production. The Bolt can become profitable even if manufacturing costs stay the same, simply by selling more units.

Demand for the Bolt is substantially outstripping supply in Europe, because high fuel costs mean that pure EVs already have a lower TCO than ICE vehicles; It's likely that GM can achieve profitability simply by ramping up production, assuming that their battery suppliers can keep up with demand.

https://neo.ubs.com/shared/d1mFW2YvNRvHXA/

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#63

Post by frosted-flakes »

gok wrote: post #41

PHEVs were such a misconceived idea. So many more parts to wear out for such little benefit.

With typical use, the gas engine probably runs 20% of the time, meaning the rest of the time it's idle (stopped) and cool. So it won't wear out very fast. But I have to say that it's a cramped affair under the Volt's hood, and I'd hate to ever have to work on it.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#64

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

gok wrote: post #41

PHEVs were such a misconceived idea. So many more parts to wear out for such little benefit.

Completely disagree. I have a Volt, and having a gas engine is not a "little benefit" to me. It's a huge benefit, despite the fact that one tank of gas lasts me about 6 months on average. I never have to worry about running out of electric charge and trying to find a charger, and I can go on long trips without having to worry about whether or not I have the range.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#66

Post by trumped »

bit_logic wrote: post #58
trumped wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how to extend the range to something everyone is used to, like 200-300 miles for road trips? There's two options, more batteries or an ICE engine. quick-change batteries would work for now

Tesla tried battery swap and abandoned it. If even early adopter Tesla customers won't accept this idea, it's very unlikely the mainstream will.

of course it needs to be done right

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#67

Post by uvesten »

rossdavidh wrote: post #24

Somehow, I am kind of reminded of GM's Saturn division. 1) make a concept 2) consumers like it 3) but GM can't make it cheaply enough, or sell it at a price that reflects it's cost 4) so they end the model and close the plant I have the impression that what is wrong with GM is not the Volt, or the old Saturn for that matter, but rather the people who run the company.

Correct, at least from my anecdata. Worked for GM in 2010 on drive-by-wire and safety tech for EV:s, but soon quit in disgust. Management had zero drive or vision to make EV’s a reality, and would rather just pump out more gas cars.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#69

Post by krrrh »

jdietrich wrote: post #62
jaytaylor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

See page 42 of the source report. UBS and Munro predict a 33% reduction in battery costs due to broader industry pricing trends, with a further reduction of 10-25% on powertrain components due to economies of scale and technology improvements. The report argues that the Bolt is already profitable on a contribution basis (sale price - cost of goods sold), meaning that GM make money on every Bolt they sell. What makes…

If demand is so high it seems like they could achieve profitability just by raising the price.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#70

Post by gok »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #64
gok wrote: post #41

PHEVs were such a misconceived idea. So many more parts to wear out for such little benefit.

Completely disagree. I have a Volt, and having a gas engine is not a "little benefit" to me. It's a huge benefit, despite the fact that one tank of gas lasts me about 6 months on average. I never have to worry about running out of electric charge and trying to find a charger, and I can go on long trips without having to worry about whether or not I have the range.

So why bother with an electric at all?
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