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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on Bolts?

Battery manufacturing scaling up, reducing the per kwh cost. Tesla is supposedly near $100/kWh at the cell level (which is the “holy grail” of EV profitability versus petrol vehicles) with Gigafactory 1 production. For comparison, VW wanted to build their own gigafactory and LG Chem is holding them hostage, threatening to not sell them the batteries they need for their EV inititiaves. Funny enough, VW is buying Tesla…

Don't they (Tesla) still just buy the batteries from Panasonic?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#52
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery manufacturing scaling up, reducing the per kwh cost. Tesla is supposedly near $100/kWh at the cell level (which is the “holy grail” of EV profitability versus petrol vehicles) with Gigafactory 1 production. For comparison, VW wanted to build their own gigafactory and LG Chem is holding them hostage, threatening to not sell them the batteries they need for their EV inititiaves. Funny enough, VW is buying Tesla…

Don't they (Tesla) still just buy the batteries from Panasonic?

Panosonic manufactures specific chemistries to Tesla specs in the gigafactory. They’ve been a great partner for Tesla, willing to increase cell production investment when demand calls for it (increased production by 30% in 2018Q4).

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#53
post #7

It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. However, it was probably inevitable once batteries got good enough. Removing the combustion engine and replacing it with more batteries probably saves far too much money. The current problem I have with electric vehicles is simply that right now they are "5 ye…

Do you think it's possible that limited run electric cars will be highly valued collectables in the future?

I mean, people don't treasure classic cars from the 50s because of their superior technology or features. It's all nostalgia.

I wouldn't be surprised if first generation teslas or volts are extremely valuable in 20 years.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#54
This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream.

With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 miles is about what you can charge with a level 1 charger overnight. Within those 50 miles EV is amazing, quiet, clean, it's clearly superior technology. And 50 miles is enough for a lot of vehicle trips such as getting groceries, going to school, commute to work, etc.

But imagine you have a 50 mile EV, how to extend the range to something everyone is used to, like 200-300 miles for road trips? There's two options, more batteries or an ICE engine. The problem with more batteries is charge time. It's not good enough right now. Even Tesla is 120kw, which is 30 minutes for 80%. And all other EV are far behind this and the charging network outside Superchargers is pathetic. Range anxiety was only part of the problem, slow charge time will be the bigger issue.

It will never be as fast as filling a gas car because that gets into the megawatt range. However, CCS spec can go up to 350kw. This would be good enough, 80% in 10 minutes. Still not fast as a gas car (which is about 5 minutes to fill a tank), but 10 minutes is ok. Combine that with a 300 mile battery, and it can be a road trip car.

There's basically no CCS chargers at 350kw and no cars that support that rate. EVs will get there eventually and replace everything (ICE, PHEV, etc.), but it's too early now. Also, there's a limit to worldwide production capacity for batteries. The amount of batteries in one Tesla could support 10 PHEV cars. PHEV is a bridge technology, but it's too early to abandon it. Now is the time when every car model should be changing to PHEV.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#55
post #7

It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017 model. However, it was probably inevitable once batteries got good enough. Removing the combustion engine and replacing it with more batteries probably saves far too much money. The current problem I have with electric vehicles is simply that right now they are "5 ye…

I'm right there with you on wanting a twenty year car. I'd be fine if it was twenty year chassis and powertrain with batteries rated at 7-8 years. The vast reduction in parts in an all electric car should make it feasible if car manufacturers wanted to build to that quality. Instead someone like GM or Ford will plan for obsolescence and do the math on how many debilitating or fatal injuries need to occur before a recall.

I'm still waiting on an all electric with battery and propulsion tech competitive with Tesla's but fit, finish and quality found in Honda or Toyota. That really will yield a twenty year all electric car.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#56

This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream. With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 mile…

> how to extend the range to something everyone is used to, like 200-300 miles for road trips? There's two options, more batteries or an ICE engine.

quick-change batteries would work for now

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#57
post #41

PHEVs were such a misconceived idea. So many more parts to wear out for such little benefit.

Think of phev as replacing two cars. Before you had to have one gas car and one electric, for long distance and local trips, respectively. Now with phev you can have only one car that's a bit more complex.

That's the dream, anyway

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#58
post #56

This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream. With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 mile…

> how to extend the range to something everyone is used to, like 200-300 miles for road trips? There's two options, more batteries or an ICE engine. quick-change batteries would work for now

Tesla tried battery swap and abandoned it. If even early adopter Tesla customers won't accept this idea, it's very unlikely the mainstream will.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would I buy a Volt when I could buy a Model 3, a Leaf, or another EV? Because you could commute on pure battery, but still drive anywhere an ICE can go without having to plan your route around charging stations and kill time while your vehicle charges. Seems like a reasonable use case to me...

Tesla sells ~25k vehicles a month to customers (enough that they’ve cannablized sales from BMW in California) who don’t mind stopping at fast DC charging stations. The market has spoken (wrt EV vs PHEV). While the Volt had a niche, it seems it wasn’t competitive enough versus newer market competitors.

...and around 475k ICE vehicles a month are sold in the US.

PHEVs seem like a nice option for the people who find that an EV is not suitable for their long distance travel, but would like something environmentally friendly for their short distance needs, and do not want to have two cars.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#60

Best car I've ever owned from a reliability and fun-to-drive perspective. A bit cramped, but it's my commuter car, so don't care. I drive 100+km a day and charge at both ends, and most weeks use no gas. But still have the flexibility to take very long road trips without the hassle of stopping at DC fast charge stations every couple hundred km. When this one dies someday, I'll probably buy another used one if I can fi…

Completely agree. I bought a used Volt last year, and I love the car. Have all the benefits of an electric car, but I didn't need to make any electrical upgrades in my garage (on 110 volts/12 amps it charges in 10 hours), and I never need to worry about where to find a charger on long trips. I really think it's the perfect car for the vast majority of people with a 1-way commute of 20 miles or less.
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