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Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

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Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define nicer. To me housing affordability is a massive lever that drives quality of life. You can find a place for 300k in Austin (renovated) what would cost 1.5m in SF.

There isn’t a neighborhood in the entirde Austin metro where you can walk to all your daily needs. The summer heat is brutal and the winters are surprisingly chilly given how hot the summer is. You don’t have anything like the natural beauty of California at your doorstep. For me though the walkability is the biggest thing. There’s not a single neighborhood in Austin that can compare to the quality of life in my “mid…

Just left Austin for this exact reason. All the companies, except a few startups and exceptions are not in downtown. They are out in the boonies. Live downtown and you are looking at 2-3 hours of commute every day and traffic is gloriously terrible. The transportation system in Austin is none to speak of. The other thing that bugs me is none of these companies are actually in Austin. It's more like Round Rock. So, when people say Austin is a tech hub, it seems like play on marketing.

This is why I left for Minneapolis, I actually bought a condo in central downtown. I can walk and bike everywhere. I can take a train or bus at any given moment to everything I would ever need and there is something to be said when you are easily and casually attend any of the major 6 sporting leagues at a drop.

As for the tech and pay. I find it pays the same or actually more in my experience. Finding a job is easy. Most companies don't play that Leetcode game, some do, but most don't it seems. Tons of huge fortune companies that use modern tech and have interesting problems, including places like Target, big banks and tons of healthcare. There are hidden startups, if you look, hard, but many haven't even take VC are only 2-5 people right now and are bootstrapped and highly profitable.

If I ever decide to take that job at a big tech in SF I'll rent out my condo in central downtown, pack up my backup and take the light rail to the airport with my one way ticket.

Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#172
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been more remote friendly as well, there are good programmers everywhere often who can't move for reasons beyond their control. Same with UK to an extent, salary differential between north and south is large (even when accounting for cost of living).

In 18 months I'm moving somewhere with not amazing job prospects due to an arrangement with my ex-wife about our kids. It's not a legal arrangement but I take promises seriously. My children are a higher priority than my career. I could work remote for 70% of a regular salary and it will be an amazing salary for my new region. I'm sure I'll give at least 0.9 productivity remotely. I'd be silly not to hire me and I ho…

Collaboration is so much harder remote. Slack and video can help! But you still lose some. I have been on both sides of the remote equation, and I think it’s not optimal.

Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#173
post #52

Though the point it more about funding and founders, seems like a salient point for developers too. You can learn a lot, really fast, and with very long odds maybe get a nice reward in the Bay Area. Or you can choose a slightly more boring path with a startup almost anywhere else with a normal 9-5 schedule, pretty good pay, and a low cost of living. Quality of life is likely better in most other cities as well, the o…

Already answered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19231986

Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#174
post #141
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but quite a few people get lonely working remotely and not having a proper office to go into, and software won't solve that (at least not until VR presence or something of the sort is really good). I've managed great engineers who have complained about this and I haven't seen a good solution.

Uhm just a random thing here, but people should look at how online gaming communities work. They solved that problem nearly 15 years ago...

Most of us don’t game 40 hours a week

Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#175
post #137
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yey, living in SF where junkies shoot on the street and everything is littered with excrements because fuck you good social security system. Let‘s live there! Plus, everything really expensive to live there. And if I work at Google I drive two hours with a bus there. I don‘t know but reading about that place it‘s insanity. And the output is Hit and miss. I know of no startup in the last ten years that‘s any substanti…

Only a small portion of SF is matches the dystopian vision you claim. Even those portions are not any worse than other urban areas. There is a reason why housing here is extremely expensive. People want to live here.

> Only a small portion of SF is matches the dystopian vision you claim. Even those portions are not any worse than other urban areas.

If you believe that you either live an extremely sheltered existence in SF or you've not visited recently.

San Francisco is pretty bad no matter where you go (except, perhaps, for the affluent areas like Sea Cliff and St Francis Woods). Out in the Outer Sunset I saw what looked like someone shat out a tapeworm over the course of three blocks the other day (if you'd like pictures, I'd be happy to oblige).

I went down to Rainbow Grocery last week and sat outside munching on some popcorn. It only took a few minutes before I was approached by a guy asking for some. Sharing food is something I've done before and will do again, but finger foods? No thanks. So the guy walks away, picks up his walking stick, gives me the crazy eyes, and then starts swinging the stick at me while muttering incoherently. This is also a part of town where you never know which side of the street you'll have to avoid due to the massive encampments (side effect of the super bowl bullshit really). Meanwhile I walked away as quickly as I could only to get hit with the stench of human shit. Turns out someone had dropped a steaming five inch mound of fresh shit nearby. The 311 ticket got closed out because they couldn't be bothered to figure out which corner if the intersection the smell was coming from (despite there being GPS coordinates in the damn picture).

I took BART last weekend to the Oakland Museum of California (the Eames exhibit was fun). I managed to get stuck on the periphery of no less than two fights on the damn trains. Last time I took BART late at night I hadn't quite realized what an open air drug market it had become. And, of course, Civic Center station has never been great but I've been seeing folks shooting up on the steps during the day. Something I never saw when I was working in that neighborhood years ago.

Backing up to earlier last week I sat next to a well traveled woman a few years younger than myself on my flight to SFO. She's from Harlem and visits SF annually. The thing that struck her most about SF vs NY was that drug use is far more open than in New York and so is homelessness. That jives with my experiences as well — San Francisco is demonstrably worse than other urban areas I've visited.

For fun search youtube for videos on sideshows. How many other urban areas get their major roads (e.g. the bay bridge, I-880) shutdown to make way for people hooning their cars? Let's not spend too much time talking about the condition of the roads out here either. They put Newark to shame. And we don't even have the excuse of extreme weather like they do in Jersey.

> There is a reason why housing here is extremely expensive. People want to live here.

That is a large part of the reason, but San Francisco is also seeing the Vancouver-like thing of rich folks parking their money in housing.

Don't forget that people often have entirely irrational reasons for wanting to live in San Francisco. Some of them have been deported from other states (thanks Las Vegas!), some of them still have a very romanticized view of San Francisco (it's not the summer of love anymore but there are plenty of kids that migrate out here in pursuit of that dream).

Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#176
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this attributable to the quality of the startups or the easy access to capital?

In my experience, it is largely attributable to local culture. The intersection of high-quality engineering talent and ambition bordering on megalomania is quite rare, but you need it to build a strong tech-driven company. In the vast majority of places in the world, and even in much of the US, this is neither socially prevalent nor culturally accepted. You have this in the Bay Area and to a lesser extent Seattle, bu…

I've seen the same thing at several places on Germany. Managers pulling people off a product that was growing rapidly and just needed a bit more time to gain industry credibility, to put them on contracting rolls to Tier 1 suppliers to the automotive industry. There were also silly things like hampering future growth through exclusive/paid feature development in order to make today's profits look better.

It was really short term thinking that didn't understand the industry requirements and ended up throwing the product under a bus to get a tiny bit of upfront guaranteed income.

Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#178
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He sort of shows the bay area bias with the bit about how “$100M” startups will be created elsewhere. There have been some much larger startups outside of the Bay Area and I suspect that trend to continue. Unicorns aren’t just a bay area phenomenon anymore

The Bay Area has less than 1/30th the US population and yet the majority of US unicorns and decacorns have hailed from here. It's wildly disproportionate.

This seems tautological. Do you have a source?

Re: Sam Altman: Bay Area is no longer the obvious place for startups

#180

> I still expect a significant % of the $10B+ startups will get created here, so it makes sense for investors to still focus here. But I bet a lot of the ~$100M startups will happen elsewhere. > There are still some things—e.g great startup executive talent, particular kinds of engineering talent—that are much harder to find outside the bay area. This is spot on and it becomes a real bottle neck if you want to scale…

Why doesn’t your employees move out of Bay Area with you? Assuming if you keep offering same comp, this would cut down mortgage expenses to half and even gain much better housing in better school areas. It should be no brainer to move out if comp remains same. So you can come in to shop for talent, have them work remotely until they are ready. No need to open expensive offices in Bay Area.

All the same reasons people don’t want to move everywhere else: family, friends, jobs (held by the spouse, for example), local culture, owning property, and just the general hassle of moving (it’s way easier to move jobs than to move houses).

Move the company somewhere cheap and continue paying the same salary so your employees can live like kings there, and I’d wager you’ll still lose the majority of them.

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