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Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#71
post #55

I don’t understand. Most firms that get sued in Texas for patent infringement don’t have mortar and brick shops in Eastern Texas. If it was that easy to avoid infringement lawsuits in Eastern Texas, Eastern Texas would be completely deserted by tech companies, forcing the people there to change their policy.

Until May 2017, having a physical presence was not a requirement for being sued there. Now because of the Supreme Court ruling referenced in the article, it is. Expect to see more businesses leaving the Eastern District of Texas, and possibly avoiding incorporation in Texas as well since that would also expose you.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They violate the FRCP? Please explain. (Your link is broken.)

The EFF explains it well in the other link. It is the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 56. I quoted it twice. The Eastern District of Texas requires you to ask permission to file summary judgement, which the judge then can deny without explanation or reasoning. As such, while the rule says you "may move for summary judgement", this is not permitted in this court. It also says you get to hear the reason when the judge…

This is a very good explanation, but it might be missing one note for lay persons.

Summary judgement is cheap (well, relative to litigation, that is), fast and occurs early in the development of the lawsuit before the most expensive steps take place.

It is a direct competitor to just paying the trolls their settlement amount to stop bothering you.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#73
post #36

I grew up in Plano; the Willow Bend location was the "main" one for my area. I think this will sting. On a map it looks like the new location is trivially close-by, but the Galleria is in "Dallas proper", as opposed to the other locations which were deep in suburbia. In other words you have to brave Dallas traffic across the urban sprawl to get to it. It's not a mall people in the suburbs go to to just hang out; it's…

I work right across the Tollway from Willow Bend, and I regularly walk to that mall for lunch. There was one time that was really convenient: sick and tired of Lyft drivers using Apple Maps consistently going to the wrong location when attempting to pick me up at home, I went into the Apple Store at lunch, hopped on an iPad, and looked up my address. Sure, enough. It was in the right place. So I submitted a change request to put it where it's supposed to be. They eventually fixed it, but it took months, and by the time they did fix it, Lyft had already banned their drivers from using Apple Maps.

Also, Willow Bend had the first Apple Store in Dallas, and for a few years, it was the only thing that mall had going for it as the original "upscale" concept of the mall flopped.

What's really going to sting, though, is losing Stonebriar. Stonebriar is really far away from Dallas... I grew up a little bit north of where the Galleria is (closer, actually, to what used to be Prestonwood), and when Stonebriar first opened, going all the way up to Frisco of all places felt like a massive journey. I've been desensitized to it since, but that's still a pretty long trek. Of course, when I was a kid, development completely ended just north of Legacy (and in parts of Plano, just north of Parker), and everything in sight of 121 was farmland, so every time I go to Stonebriar I'm going someplace that used to be a no man's land when I was little. How things have changed...

And from my personal experience going to the Galleria after work, the traffic turns into a nightmare at the drop of a hat. During rush hour, the southbound Tollway is completely clear until just before Keller Springs, and then the traffic becomes bumper-to-bumper until way past 635.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#74

It seems quite reasonable for apple to avoid the renegade court. The court is known to intentionally violate the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure to the benefit of patent holders.[1] You must seek permission from the renegade judge in order to file Summary Judgement. "A party may move for summary judgment" They may not move for summary judgement, because the judge denies this in this court. "The court should state on…

[deleted]

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#75
post #36

I grew up in Plano; the Willow Bend location was the "main" one for my area. I think this will sting. On a map it looks like the new location is trivially close-by, but the Galleria is in "Dallas proper", as opposed to the other locations which were deep in suburbia. In other words you have to brave Dallas traffic across the urban sprawl to get to it. It's not a mall people in the suburbs go to to just hang out; it's…

True, the Galleria parking and 635 area are usually what turn people off (not that Stonebriar and Willow Bend don't have their own problems these days). There are no other upscale malls in the north Dallas region beyond those three, I don't see Apple ending up in the lesser Grapevine Mills or Music City (nee Vista Ridge) malls to serve the area assuming they are within the boundary. But in general, people in the metr…

> There are no other upscale malls in the north Dallas region beyond those three

Well, there's also NorthPark, but I believe that already has an Apple Store.

And I wouldn't really call Stonebriar "upscale". It's basically the only non-upscale mall here that isn't dead or dying.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#76

Here's something I don't quite understand, and where some of this feels a little hypocritical: Apple, the most valuable company in the world, could be working to reform patent law in order to make this a non-issue. Everyone talks about US politics as pay-to-play, it should be possible for Apple, Google, MS, Amazon, etc., to lobby for Software Patents, for example, to be reclassified as "math" and therefor not patenta…

The challenge is that the issue is created in the courts, and direct lobbying of judges is a lot less acceptable than lobbying politicians. And even if you solved that, tech would find itself lobbying against big pharma, and they are a lot better at lobbying the government than tech has historically been.

US rules on patents are created by a combination of laws and precedents. Of the two, precedent is in practice more important because courts are bound to interpret new cases in accord with how higher courts have interpreted old ones, no matter what they think of the interpretation.

And now consider the structure of US courts. An insane fraction of patent lawsuits start in Texas. Thanks to a special legal arrangement, all patent cases from anywhere next go to a special court known as the Federal Circuit. And only after that to the Supreme Court.

It is a general rule of bureaucracy that people will consistently interpret their jobs in a way that makes their role more important. All patent cases go to the Federal Circuit. The more powerful patents are, the more important that court is. Would you guess that their precedents are generally going to increase or decrease the importance of patents?

Now the Supreme Court does overturn them occasionally. But the Supreme Court is busy and only does this so often. And when the Supreme Court overturns them, the next case relying on Supreme Court precedent inevitably goes to the Federal Circuit, which has proven very willing to engage in sophistry to issue a new binding precedent that clearly is the opposite of what the Supreme Court meant. And since there is no easy way to remove those judges, there is no consequence for them in doing so. Around the country lawyers who specialize in patents, whose livelihood also depends on patents being important, cynically applaud. And the escalator continues.

Now here is the truth. US law already says that abstract ideas (like math) are not patentable. The decision that software is more like machines than math doesn't come from Congress, it comes from the courts. Congress could pass more laws. But they would get interpreted by the same court. Would you care to wager on how that will work out?

The real solution is to recognize that creating the Federal Circuit in 1980 was a bad idea and reverse it. However remember what I said at the beginning about big pharma liking patents? Exactly...

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#77

Here's something I don't quite understand, and where some of this feels a little hypocritical: Apple, the most valuable company in the world, could be working to reform patent law in order to make this a non-issue. Everyone talks about US politics as pay-to-play, it should be possible for Apple, Google, MS, Amazon, etc., to lobby for Software Patents, for example, to be reclassified as "math" and therefor not patenta…

1. I think your assumption of pay-to-play is too strong. It's true to some degree but it's not as simple as having the right budget. For one, there are always factions working against you. There are always multiple jurisdictions and branches to consider, with different incentives. Add currents of public opinion and how they impact electoral and business interests on top of it all... it's a complex puzzle. So even the biggest budget is no guarantee.

2. Your broader point about Apple and patents presumes that all software patents are always bad. That may be popular on HN, but I sincerely doubt it's that black and white. Yes, patent trolling trivial components or processes feels and probably is overtly 'wrong'. But there's a more nuanced debate about creating the right incentives to do difficult intellectual work that benefits everyone. There's probably a 'correct' granularity of patentable idea even in software.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#78

Here's something I don't quite understand, and where some of this feels a little hypocritical: Apple, the most valuable company in the world, could be working to reform patent law in order to make this a non-issue. Everyone talks about US politics as pay-to-play, it should be possible for Apple, Google, MS, Amazon, etc., to lobby for Software Patents, for example, to be reclassified as "math" and therefor not patenta…

They don't want to re-define how patent law works because they sometimes use it to their advantage.

I think it's more that their legal department is busy with enabling their business. Which is doing well. Typically industry lobbying is performed through industry associations, not by companies themselves.

Why would Apple shoulder the burden of the lobbying effort when all of the other tech companies would be happy to ride their coat-tails?

Additionally, the political climate re IP lobbying in the past 5 years has been non-optimal to push for changes. Apple has been involved in several very large IP disputes, which makes their involvement look self serving, the AIA was relatively new and some people wanted to wait to see if it would be effective, a new USPTO director came in only a year ago* (prior to which the previous director was very unlikely to make large changes at the end of their mandate), and the current administration is very hostile towards coastal IP-centric business.

*Oh, and he's fucking horrible: https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/10/19/iancu-risk-takers-pate...

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#79
post #36

I grew up in Plano; the Willow Bend location was the "main" one for my area. I think this will sting. On a map it looks like the new location is trivially close-by, but the Galleria is in "Dallas proper", as opposed to the other locations which were deep in suburbia. In other words you have to brave Dallas traffic across the urban sprawl to get to it. It's not a mall people in the suburbs go to to just hang out; it's…

I think this will sting. Won't that create an opportunity for an independent local business? It won't be as convenient and nice as an Apple store. However, it will reduce the sting in exchange for some profit.

Speaking as someone that's a fan of independent, local businesses and struggled with running one for 10 years: no business best described by the words "independent" and "local" can compete on all aspects of customer service with a megacorp. The resources just ain't there for it.

It will have higher prices or poorer service, if one is opened at all.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#80
post #59
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relevant excerpt is: >The plans are significant, as U.S. law states that patent infringement lawsuits may be filed "where the defendant has committed acts of infringement and has a regular and established place of business." By closing its stores in Eastern Texas, Apple is ending its established place of business in the district. Moving a store from one district of Texas to another obviously doesn't relate to the…

Having a location in that District is creating a nexus - you end up having legal residency in that location

IANAL, I can only go by what the article is saying. The article explicitly says "a U.S. corporation resides only in its state of incorporation".

"Residency" in this sense is evidently not the same as "having an established place of business". Apple is avoiding having an "established place of business" in the eastern district.

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