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Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

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Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#231
Companies care more about price than replicability.

Almost all the processor market is ARM already. Scale wins.

ARM desktops are likely if not inevitable.

X86 is not one unified platform.

Cloud hardware will become specialised and not like the hardware in your desktop.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#232

The mixing in of reader abuse is really off putting. "do you really not understand?" etc. I know, I know, it's been discussed a thousand times, but still.

Seems like he didn't change his tone much after his time-off.

https://gizmodo.com/linux-founder-takes-some-time-off-to-lea...

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#233
post #33

It's of course impossible not to respect Linus' opinion and first hand experience in this space, but doesn't this whole post completely ignore the 100 ton blue whale in the room? Namely smartphones . That's an entire enormous segment of the industry and it's nearly 100% (or entirely 100%?) literally develop-on-x86-deploy-on-ARM. Smartphones also fit > "This isn't rocket science. This isn't some made up story. This is…

He's also apparently assuming that ARM-based Chromebooks will never be a useful developer environment. I wouldn't take that bet -- a lot of the newer ones will support Linux VMs out of the box well enough to support at least a half-decent development environment (via Crostini). (You can get a Pixelbook with 8GB RAM and a 512GB SSD, if you're wondering about storage space. And while Crostini still has issues with in-VM driver support for things like the Chromebook's own audio and camera, that's stuff that server software wouldn't use much anyway.)

Between that and the much-rumored ARM Macs, this could turn pretty quickly...

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#234

> I can pretty much guarantee that as long as everybody does cross-development, the platform won't be all that stable. Even if that's technically true, there's no reason there can't be ARM workstations. There aren't many because they're still generally slower, but there's no fundamental reason (that I know of) why an ARM workstation can't work just as well as an x86 workstation in almost every case.

Intel is already anticipating Apple moving to ARM for “desktop”. Chromebooks already run a mix.

He’ll be right until he is wrong.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#235
post #33

It's of course impossible not to respect Linus' opinion and first hand experience in this space, but doesn't this whole post completely ignore the 100 ton blue whale in the room? Namely smartphones . That's an entire enormous segment of the industry and it's nearly 100% (or entirely 100%?) literally develop-on-x86-deploy-on-ARM. Smartphones also fit > "This isn't rocket science. This isn't some made up story. This is…

Java should work in everything and iOS only needs to support their own hardware.

I don't think ARM can rule with Java ( that already supports it) and Swift/c ( limited hardware)

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#236
post #33

It's of course impossible not to respect Linus' opinion and first hand experience in this space, but doesn't this whole post completely ignore the 100 ton blue whale in the room? Namely smartphones . That's an entire enormous segment of the industry and it's nearly 100% (or entirely 100%?) literally develop-on-x86-deploy-on-ARM. Smartphones also fit > "This isn't rocket science. This isn't some made up story. This is…

Java should work in everything and iOS only needs to support their own hardware.

I don't think ARM can rule with Java ( that already supports it) and Swift/c ( limited hardware).

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#237
post #160

...except that ARM laptops and desktops are the next wave, as ARM dominates mobile devices and tablets already, it's sneaking up on Linus from behind. Additionally, Linux is the server platform, abstracting the ISA to a large degree, particularly with regards to what most people consider web applications development, tooling, etc. Docker and Kubernetes serves as this paper for many, as well. This all will matter in t…

From the post:

> I can pretty much guarantee that as long as everybody does cross-development, the platform won't be all that stable.

He's saying that until ARM platform arrives on desktop, it's unlikely to be successful in the server market. He's not making any assumptions about whether or not PCs are going to turn to ARM.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#238
post #223

I feel this is why Ubuntu is one of the most popular server distros. Ubuntu is pretty unsuited for servers IMO. It's just complex and error-prone, IMO. The packages aren't always server-quality. But it's great for the desktop IMO, because Canonical actually tests against real hardware for you. So the fact that people use Ubuntu for desktop/laptop development makes it popular in the cloud, which I've always felt was u…

Can you expand it on this?

I agree that I use Ubuntu on server because I use it on the desktop, that makes sense.

However, when I installed Ubuntu Server 18.04 recently it was delightful. There was this simple feature they added which automatically pulled down my ssh key from my GitHub account. During the install it asked me to enable the semi-recent kernel livepatching (and old fashioned unattended-upgrades) it even suggested plexmediaserver as a snap package - which was my goal.

Of course installing actual servers is a bit archaic in the age of docker, but it made me feel like I made the right choice of OS.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#239
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we are talking about toxic, I think we all understood it meant behavior. And the point of community guidelines isn't to make it the community more inclusive, it's actually to make it more exclusive. Limiting speech and thoughts are exclusive behaviors, not inclusive ones. But I'm all for HN or any other platform having guidelines. I studied philosophy in college so I don't need an explanation of what poisoning t…

Well, we are going to disagree about this, so I won't drag this on forever. However I would like to be clear about a couple things. > And the point of community guidelines isn't to make it the community more inclusive, it's actually to make it more exclusive. Again, mixing up behaviors and people. The whole point of community guidelines is to serve the community--to include and support a wide range of people , not a…

It's semantics to say community guidelines serve to support a wide range of people and not behaviors. It has the same effect. It will drive away people who do not fit your definition of "good" behavior. It's no different than homophobic policies that said we don't discriminate against gays, we discriminate against "bad behavior". And certain behaviors can drive away people, but censorship definitely does.

And I have to disagree with you about the worst communities. The worst communities are those with too much guidelines. Of course some guidelines are necessary, but mostly those involving harrassment, not speech. The US is based on the idea of less guidelines. North Korea, China, Russia, etc are based on "lots of guidelines". And the death spiral can go boths ways. Just as much to totalitarianism as it can go to anarcy.

Also, it's not an exaggeration that "insults and inflammatory language" is stifling. It's the definition of it. Anything can be considered insulting to anyone. That's why we have principled understanding of free speech. The basis of free speech is that you have the right to offend. Otherwise, you claiming that the earth is round is offensive and inflammatory to a flat earther and grounds for censorship.

You seem to think that just because I think someone should be allowed to say "an argument is stupid" is me advocating for anarchy or harrassment. I'm not. Also, "insults" aren't that insulting to everyone. Language that you find offensive isn't offensive to me. And I don't consider Linux's language to be offensive. But you do. But that's the point isn't it. Everyone has a diverse upbringing and diverse opinions.

Also I'd stay away from the term "bad behavior" because that's the same terminology the chinese government uses to crack down on its own citizens and oppress them. It's rather paternalistic and authoritarian which reminds people of the worse form of nanny states.

And last thing, why do you care how linux speaks. He is his own individual. Does he come to you and tell you how you should speak? I just find it the high of arrogance that you ( a relative nobody just like me ) has the gall to tell someone like Linux how he should speak or behave. If you don't like it, just don't read what he says. That's what I find frustrating. Why do you feel like you get to tell others how to live their lives?

At the end of the day, the people at HN can do what they want because it's their property. Regular users like you and I won't change anything. Just like we aren't going to change Linux or the platform he uses to express his opinions. I wish I could have changed your mind but I think I failed so I'll just end it here too. I just find it strange that anyone on hacker news would be demanding that linus torvalds or anyone for that matter be censored.

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