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Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

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Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#221
I think this ignores the fact that these devs just write some js and push it to some cloud server and it uses APIs for storage on some other server.

The person running the infra for S3 or GitHub needs to think like Linus because they need to worry about that system level compatibility. But if I write an app using say node+s3 I trust that even though I develop on x86 I can run it under node on Arm.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#222
post #160

...except that ARM laptops and desktops are the next wave, as ARM dominates mobile devices and tablets already, it's sneaking up on Linus from behind. Additionally, Linux is the server platform, abstracting the ISA to a large degree, particularly with regards to what most people consider web applications development, tooling, etc. Docker and Kubernetes serves as this paper for many, as well. This all will matter in t…

He is right though from a historical perspective. All he is saying is x86 won over the server space because its where people develop. If the arm development platform becomes a thing, then he will be proven right again.

I have a slightly different take. Arm on the server has a chance now because cloud and thin clients are increasingly common and so even your "at home" machine, as he calls it, could be in the cloud, the same arm machine used for deployment.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#223
I feel this is why Ubuntu is one of the most popular server distros.

Ubuntu is pretty unsuited for servers IMO. It's just complex and error-prone, IMO. The packages aren't always server-quality.

But it's great for the desktop IMO, because Canonical actually tests against real hardware for you.

So the fact that people use Ubuntu for desktop/laptop development makes it popular in the cloud, which I've always felt was unfortunate.

You could do some extra work to test your web app on a more minimal distro or on a BSD, but why bother? Ubuntu works to a degree, so you save that step. Same with x86.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#224

I think this ignores the fact that these devs just write some js and push it to some cloud server and it uses APIs for storage on some other server. The person running the infra for S3 or GitHub needs to think like Linus because they need to worry about that system level compatibility. But if I write an app using say node+s3 I trust that even though I develop on x86 I can run it under node on Arm.

I think he tries to address this but fails to acknowledge it elsewhere.

> This is true even if what you mostly do is something ostensibly cross-platform like just run Perl scripts or whatever. Simply because you'll want to have as similar an environment as possible,

I guess if you're doing stuff with low-level packages using node-gyp or C++ bindings then sure, but pure node-based workloads don't care about the architecture and, as you said, are expected to work everywhere.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't really matter. Mice are not first class peripherals for those mobile applications. Desktop and mobile OSes should remain separate. You don't go around hauling fully loaded semi trailers with a car.

Touch friendly is mouse friendly. We've known about Fitz's Law since the dawn of the GUI and have decades of study on it. It's not any more efficient to need to "headshot" everything you need in an application 100% of the time, and in fact it is often rather the opposite that it gets in the way of actual efficiency. Mousing through most "mobile" applications is great, whether "first class" or not. Desktop and mobile…

Touch friendly is mouse friendly.

It's friendly but it's not space efficient. For applications with a huge number of features, a touch UI can't handle them. Touch screens don't have right click, so you can't get context menus.

It's more than that, though. A touch screen UI for the iPhone makes zero sense on a 32" display. I'd much rather have a true multiwindow, multitasking operating system than that. Really, I wouldn't use a 32" iOS device at all. That's probably why Apple doesn't make them.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#228
> I can pretty much guarantee that as long as everybody does cross-development, the platform won't be all that stable.

Even if that's technically true, there's no reason there can't be ARM workstations. There aren't many because they're still generally slower, but there's no fundamental reason (that I know of) why an ARM workstation can't work just as well as an x86 workstation in almost every case.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#229
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you haven't been paying attention to the clamping down of the NDK I was talking about. https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/improving-... https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/04/fortify-in... https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/08/hardening-... https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/10/control-fl... Also Google is working with ARM to adopt the new memory tagging archi…

One article is about enforcing the exvlusive use of public APIs. The rest is about hardening the C/C++ code of AOSP. I dobnot see any "clamping down" here. What am I missing?

Using SE Linux and seccomp to close down entry points to the Linux kernel.

Since this work only started on Android 7, it is clamping down the free reign that existed before.

Re: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touch friendly is mouse friendly. We've known about Fitz's Law since the dawn of the GUI and have decades of study on it. It's not any more efficient to need to "headshot" everything you need in an application 100% of the time, and in fact it is often rather the opposite that it gets in the way of actual efficiency. Mousing through most "mobile" applications is great, whether "first class" or not. Desktop and mobile…

Touch friendly is mouse friendly. It's friendly but it's not space efficient. For applications with a huge number of features, a touch UI can't handle them. Touch screens don't have right click, so you can't get context menus. It's more than that, though. A touch screen UI for the iPhone makes zero sense on a 32" display. I'd much rather have a true multiwindow, multitasking operating system than that. Really, I woul…

Which is why not only do Android and Windows tablets/2-1 support mices, they also can be docked to proper screens.
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