Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

esquire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 99 posts

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#71

Post by iliketosleep »

HNLurker2 wrote: post #55
iliketosleep wrote: post #30

This article is an important read for any meditation enthusiast who isn't aware that it's not all rainbows and ponies. Intense meditation does affect brain structure, and how it affects different individuals can be unpredictable. This is why some people will need extra support. I have done intense meditation before and became a much calmer person. I experienced a level of peace and harmony that felt like my mind was…

I think what you mean by dark night is the last chapter in The Mind Illuminated. Being red pilled with the literature doesn't make you immune to the "dark night"

I was referring to the "dark night" Dr Daniel Ingram expounds upon in his writings (which I'm familiar with) and is referred to in the article. I haven't read The Mind Illuminated, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing.

Regardless, there is no such thing as "red pilled" when it comes to all of this, and nobody who engages in intense meditation is immune. I went through it once and that was quite enough.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#72

Post by nchos »

jdietrich wrote: post #54
maxander wrote: post #12

Meditation retreats sound interesting, but they've always struck me as tending to have a fairly grueling, bizarre schedule- awake and breakfast at ~6AM, dinner at 4pm, lights out at 9PM (and no meal until breakfast the next day.) It strikes me as the worst setup for long meditation sessions- getting everyone sleepy and hungry and out of sorts. That it would send susceptible people off the deep end doesn't sound surpr…

The author doesn't mention where he went on retreat, but there's more than enough information in his post to figure it out. I won't name them, but I will say that they aren't a monastery and aren't part of an established Buddhist tradition. The movement that the retreat centre is affiliated to was established in the late 1960s by a businessman with no monastic training. Bluntly, there are a lot of organisations out t…

The author doesn't mention where he went on retreat

Respectfully, did you read the article? Because both Vipassana and Mr. Goenka are mentioned.

In my experience nothing in Vipassana is particularly bizarre. Eating two meals a day with a snack in the evening isn't an ascetic practice, and neither is the sleep schedule which allows for 6.5 hours a night. The sleep I will admit is an adjustment, but it's a challenge, not an impossibility. And not a health risk. It's a great deal of meditation, but that's the idea.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#73

Post by HNLurker2 »

iliketosleep wrote: post #71
HNLurker2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you mean by dark night is the last chapter in The Mind Illuminated. Being red pilled with the literature doesn't make you immune to the "dark night"

I was referring to the "dark night" Dr Daniel Ingram expounds upon in his writings (which I'm familiar with) and is referred to in the article. I haven't read The Mind Illuminated, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing. Regardless, there is no such thing as "red pilled" when it comes to all of this, and nobody who engages in intense meditation is immune. I went through it once and that was quite enough.

> haven't read The Mind Illuminated, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing.

Basically it says at the end of the book telling us about: suffering, impeanence and no self. He tell us we should notice we become angry and enraged like a nihilist. (1) The idea is that meditation and absorption is the only salvation to that , meaning without these skills you will be bound to suffer for real.

>Regardless, there is no such thing as "red pilled" when it comes to all of this, and nobody who engages in intense meditation is immune. I went through it once and that was quite enough.

Well I am sorry for the language, as a lay Buddhist myself keeping up with the discourses, middle length,combined of the Buddha and other sutras. They are nihilistic and don't talk about the meaning of life but just about salivation from suffering.

(1) Buddha was the first nihilist in the world. Source wikipedia.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#75

Post by AstralStorm »

mnm1 wrote: post #47

Sounds like psychedelic drugs, used properly (unlike the author), are a safer alternative. Who'd have thought?

They're not, which is why the experimenters always had an experienced "sitter" watching and there was emphasis on (mind) "set and setting".

Or why in other cultures such a psychedelic trip was guided by a shaman.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#76

Post by iliketosleep »

HNLurker2 wrote: post #73
iliketosleep wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to the "dark night" Dr Daniel Ingram expounds upon in his writings (which I'm familiar with) and is referred to in the article. I haven't read The Mind Illuminated, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing. Regardless, there is no such thing as "red pilled" when it comes to all of this, and nobody who engages in intense meditation is immune. I went through it once and that was quite enough.

> haven't read The Mind Illuminated, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing. Basically it says at the end of the book telling us about: suffering, impeanence and no self. He tell us we should notice we become angry and enraged like a nihilist. (1) The idea is that meditation and absorption is the only salvation to that , meaning without these skills you will be bound to suffer for real. >Regardless, there is no such…

So the book that you mention takes things to the extreme, and this is what often happens with belief systems of any sort. Personally, I have found meditation on the three characteristics (unsatisfactoriness, impermanence, and non-self) to be useful. Why? So I can go on craving things I can't have, mourning losses, and getting caught up in my own ego, only without being completely overwhelmed by it all.

Life without suffering is not life, and those who truly believe in the complete removal of suffering will indeed find their way to nihilism.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#77

Post by arpa »

iliketosleep wrote: post #76
HNLurker2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> haven't read The Mind Illuminated, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing. Basically it says at the end of the book telling us about: suffering, impeanence and no self. He tell us we should notice we become angry and enraged like a nihilist. (1) The idea is that meditation and absorption is the only salvation to that , meaning without these skills you will be bound to suffer for real. >Regardless, there is no such…

So the book that you mention takes things to the extreme, and this is what often happens with belief systems of any sort. Personally, I have found meditation on the three characteristics (unsatisfactoriness, impermanence, and non-self) to be useful. Why? So I can go on craving things I can't have, mourning losses, and getting caught up in my own ego, only without being completely overwhelmed by it all. Life without s…

beautifully put! If I might add - the first noble truth is that life is suffering, to which, the noble eightfold path only offers a temporary remedy.

It has been a long time since I've been on the path, but I still remember the beauty of the inner silence; however I also remember how the silence becomes the void that eats away at the world we dream, leaving only the cold and naked meaningless of the world - i still remember how it was easy to become one with nothing instead of becoming one with everything.

I also wanted to say something more regarding Karuna, however that would probably be even more superfluous and pointless than my comment already is.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#78

Post by IanSanders »

iliketosleep wrote: post #30

This article is an important read for any meditation enthusiast who isn't aware that it's not all rainbows and ponies. Intense meditation does affect brain structure, and how it affects different individuals can be unpredictable. This is why some people will need extra support. I have done intense meditation before and became a much calmer person. I experienced a level of peace and harmony that felt like my mind was…

While I agree with you, the author experienced drugs and psychosis before, which I bet contributed.

Meditation on its own is unlikely to cause harm, I think.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#79

Post by mruts »

cobbzilla wrote: post #53
mruts wrote: post #3

I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. I just read it for the second time, and I still don’t have a good grasp of what he experienced or what connections he’s trying to make to Buddhism. Maybe that’s understandable given what happened to him (though I’m not really sure of, besides him going “crazy”), but I still think that as a journalist he shou…

> I found the article a little disorganized and the author seems to be having trouble expounding a clear thesis. How many psychotic episodes have you had in your life? Perhaps it is amazing that the author could even put words to paper to describe the experience. Yes, the piece is a bit rambling, but how often do you get a first-hand account of a visit to the Dark Night and back again? The notion that meditation is n…

I’m bipolar and ha e gone through a number of experiences myself, both drug induced and otherwise. Many writers have described these kind of experiences with such poise and skill and I just think this guy falls short. With him being a journalist, I was just expecting a more coherent narrative and deeper introspection into his actual first person experience. I started off with him describing him arrested at a retreat but he never really seriously tried to make us understand his headspace.

Re: I Left a Buddhist Retreat in Handcuffs

#80

Post by HNLurker2 »

iliketosleep wrote: post #76
HNLurker2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> haven't read The Mind Illuminated, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing. Basically it says at the end of the book telling us about: suffering, impeanence and no self. He tell us we should notice we become angry and enraged like a nihilist. (1) The idea is that meditation and absorption is the only salvation to that , meaning without these skills you will be bound to suffer for real. >Regardless, there is no such…

So the book that you mention takes things to the extreme, and this is what often happens with belief systems of any sort. Personally, I have found meditation on the three characteristics (unsatisfactoriness, impermanence, and non-self) to be useful. Why? So I can go on craving things I can't have, mourning losses, and getting caught up in my own ego, only without being completely overwhelmed by it all. Life without s…

Not really it had been suggested here on HN , I can safely say its the best book of meditation I've read. Like someone said a "manual" for your mind and soul.

Also read SSC review on it. https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/28/book-review-the-mind-i...

P.S: having a christian author book quote in your bio. You may as well have a culture shock when it comes to the early Buddhism (not anything modern like Mahayana and cotemporary) since its on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Post reply on HN