Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#141

Post by CharlesColeman » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #129

derriz wrote: post #13

At least they acknowledged it, responded to the feedback and fixed it. Unfortunately I have a Sonos system which became effectively bricked unless I signed a new user agreement allowing the collection of data. There are no physical controls on Sonos so the system becomes useless without accepting. They used to sell dedicated controllers/remotes years ago but these were also bricked as part of an upgrade about a year…

> by having it run on a disconnected network This is only a temporary solution to the problem of devices phoning home against your wishes (or knowledge). The "system-on-a-chip" CPUs used in embedded ("smart") devices with an integrated cellular (LTE/etc) modem have existed for years[1]. The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. The people that want…

> The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists.

Wouldn't such a thing require an antenna that you could remove or disable to function?

Speaking of... is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Like some kind of component that you could replace the antenna with that would mitigate any residual antenna-function of the remaining wiring? I want to do this to the modem on my car.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#142

Post by ams6110 » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

> Perhaps I should find some AA batteries for the physical remote instead

We have a winner!

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#143

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #76

bunderbunder wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. That said, I'm not sure you can really pin this down. It's probably better to just assume that any device that requires a wi-fi connection to work is phoning home until proven otherwise. And you have to assume that any device that phones home is collecting data. It's not even a secret that…

> The law could include a ban on firmware updates that subsequently introduce and require sensitive data collection post-purchase. This is IMHO a broader issue with products that receive firmware or OTA updates, it's probably legally a breach of contract already to modify products after sale and change functionality to the disadvantage of the consumer.

I bought a Roku via NowTV, and used it for NowTV and sideloaded an app for local media display on our TV (music, family photos).

Roku/NowTV modified the device by connecting to it without authorisation and removing the ability to sideload.

In theory that's a breech of the UK Computer Misuse Act (similar to CFAA in USA), both in the access and separately in the modification.

In practice there's not much one can do, just never buy Sky/NowTV or Roku products ever again.

Moved to FireTV, installed the same app from the app store. Now we get Netflix instead.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#144

Post by thoughtexprmnt » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 7:48 PM UTC

I recall ditching a relatively high-end router a year or two ago after a firmware update required me to accept that in order to use most of the advanced features supported by the router, essentially all of my household's web activity would be sent to a 3rd party data collection service. Thanks but no thanks.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#145

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #138

conesus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built a complementary product called the pedestal which does exactly this. You can either mount it on the wall (it has magnets to hold it in place) or place it on a nightstand (as I do) where it lives in the same place every time when I reach for it.

Wow... your answer makes my question sound like it was sponsored. But you are awesome. I will be making an order. I've been looking for a way to turn all the lights off in the house and shut off my kids iPad. I can do these things by going into apps on my phone, but when I'm wanting to do it I'm often REALLY exhausted and would kill for a 1 button solution. I don't quite see how I can use this to shut off the iPad ea…

You can use NFC tags in a way such that a script is run when the device comes close to the tag. I gather you can thus do things like send an API call to turn off all the lights when you put your phone on your bedside table.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#146

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #139

codetrotter wrote: post #12

> Google, in its wisdom, has tied "Location" into things like BLE Scanning and WiFi scanning. The excuse is that you can use these things as a proxy for location. That is, if I know you are near access point X your location is probably near Y. It’s not an “excuse”, it’s a fact. If you allow an app to scan SSIDs you are allowing it to know your location. No amount of sarcasm on the part of OP is going to change that.

How about a limited API that lets a program scan for a particular SSID - so it can look for a "PioneerSoundsystem" SSID, but it's much harder to scan for all SSID's. Still not perfect, since it can search for well-known SSID's like "StarbucksWifi" or "Comcast", but it limits the exposure - the API could have a limit on how many SSID's can be searched for by the app before you need to re-authorize it, so it can only s…

Why not just forward the SSID of any device matching that companies MAC, as a default, then allow customers to let an app access top-10, top-100, all, selected, etc., using normal permission requests.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#147

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #110

I think the obvious glaring flaw here is deciding to have a remote control for an amplifier run Android. Why on earth would that be necessary?

I'd guess it's easy and cheap.

You can make a purpose built remote with BLE and a nice screen, or buy a cheap Android phone for a fifth (guessing!) of the dev costs?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#148

Post by danarmak » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 8:09 PM UTC

CharlesColeman wrote: post #141

pdkl95 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by having it run on a disconnected network This is only a temporary solution to the problem of devices phoning home against your wishes (or knowledge). The "system-on-a-chip" CPUs used in embedded ("smart") devices with an integrated cellular (LTE/etc) modem have existed for years[1]. The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. The people that want…

> The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. Wouldn't such a thing require an antenna that you could remove or disable to function? Speaking of... is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Like some kind of component that you could replace the antenna with that would mitigate any residual antenna-function o…

> is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna?

Wrap it in aluminum foil as a Faraday cage?

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#149

Post by CharlesColeman » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

danarmak wrote: post #148

CharlesColeman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hardware that can simply bypass your local network and phone home over the cellular network already exists. Wouldn't such a thing require an antenna that you could remove or disable to function? Speaking of... is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Like some kind of component that you could replace the antenna with that would mitigate any residual antenna-function o…

> is there a more effective way to disable a cellular modem than removing its antenna? Wrap it in aluminum foil as a Faraday cage?

> Wrap it in aluminum foil as a Faraday cage?

That's not a practical solution for a car.

Basically, the problem is the car's electronics have a cellular modem component, but I want everything besides that to continue to function and receive other radio signals. I can disconnect the antenna plug, but my understanding is that will just make the reception worse but not eliminate it.

I'm wondering if there's something simple and safe that would basically act as an anti-antenna, and absorb or interfere with any signals the rest of the electronics manage to pick up or transmit. I don't know much about electronics, but I was thinking maybe some kind of passive component, like a capacitor or resistor, might be able to soak up any residual signal.

Re: Why Does My Remote Control Need to Know My Location?

#150

Post by hyperman1 » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

All these stories give me a though choice. Should I auto update apps on android?

Clearly the answer is Yes because of security updates and bug fixes, and maybe the occasional interesting feature. Besides, once in a while an android developing HN poster will complain about all those pesky users that just don't update, and I know their pain very well.

Clearly the answer is No because I have no idea if the app will continue to work tomorrow after the next update? Will it start doing something sleazy, causing a worse security problem than just being hacked? Will it break because I happen to use an edge case which will be buggy.

I could manually update after a few days have passed, so I can make an informed choice. But finding detailed info for 1 app is challenging, and there are 40 or so on my phone. That's about a full time job, and my parents and neighbors have smart phones too.

I mean, I love my radio. You push power, you get music. Easy. I' pretty sure this will happen tomorrow, just like it did the last 20 years. It's not going to decide one day to start walking around and sell a map of the house to ikea or whatever. Now why can't I ask from my phone, being a personal organiser and extension of my mind, to be as trustworthy as this?

For now, my personal compromise is to auto update firefox, manually update the OS, and firewall the others and never ever update them when they work well enough. I trust firefox and HME(OS, zombie Nokia) not to fuck up too bad and fix things reasonably fast. I wish i could trust the ecosystems more and just auto update everything, but today? Not gonna happen.