America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#111

Post by ip26 » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

Have you actually dug ditches for a few weeks? It's a popular rhetorical device but I wonder how many engineers have actually done stints of hard labor.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#112

Post by BucketSort » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

Most people don't have passions in life, they do have a passion for possession and social status though. Our culture also looks down on the people that don't have all these status symbols, and people naturally do not want to be looked down upon, so they keep racing to keep up just so their peers respect them. Our culture breeds depression. There are farmers in third world countries that live a more meaningful and joyful life than most do here. Koyaanisqatsi.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#113

Post by alehul » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

maps wrote: post #84

naravara wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't afford to live on 500-600k. The one where you lock into a mortgage and a car that assumes a $1.2M salary to keep ahead of. It's really easy to let your lifestyle expenses balloon, especially in a high-COL city where minor increases in living space/amenities can end up costing large amounts of money.

To consume $100k a month we need a $10-20 million dollar mortgage (50-100k/mo depending on years and rate). I have to assume a few cars, dining, etc would probably end up being $10-20k/mo so the mortgage is probably around $15 mil. So in NY or SF you are looking at something like a 1-2k sq/ft 2 bed 1 bathroom shithole apartment. Not so luxurious after all really.

Less than $15m could buy a 5 bedroom mansion of a single-family home in San Francisco, and in New York, a ridiculously stunning 5 bedroom apartment.

Where did you get 1-2k sq/ft 2 bed 1 bath shithole from?

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#114

Post by eclipxe » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

maps wrote: post #84

naravara wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't afford to live on 500-600k. The one where you lock into a mortgage and a car that assumes a $1.2M salary to keep ahead of. It's really easy to let your lifestyle expenses balloon, especially in a high-COL city where minor increases in living space/amenities can end up costing large amounts of money.

To consume $100k a month we need a $10-20 million dollar mortgage (50-100k/mo depending on years and rate). I have to assume a few cars, dining, etc would probably end up being $10-20k/mo so the mortgage is probably around $15 mil. So in NY or SF you are looking at something like a 1-2k sq/ft 2 bed 1 bathroom shithole apartment. Not so luxurious after all really.

And that's not even taking into account taxes...

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#115

Post by Gibbon1 » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

akavi wrote: post #19

The article seems to be omitting an important piece of data: Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less? It implies by its framing that they're less happy, but that's not actually supported by any actual data in the piece (though to be fair, on cursory googling I wasn't able to find any evidence one way or another).

> Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less?

Are they happier snorting five grams of coke a week vs 1 gram? vs a guy rationing a six pack over a week?

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#116

Post by scruple » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

No. I've also always held similar thoughts. I will say, though, that in my late 30s today, I fully expect to be at this for another 30 years, if not longer.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#117

Post by nightski » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #55

nightski wrote: post #42

I'd just like to add a thought - maybe happiness isn't all it's cracked up to be? I mean sure, we should strive to achieve a certain standard of living for everyone. But once you get to a certain point of "happiness", maybe it's the happiness itself which makes you miserable?

> I find I am at my best when things are not going perfectly and I am backed against a corner. I would suggest that such a situation makes you happy. Happiness does not imply the lack of struggle or difficulty. In fact, I think most people need struggle and difficulty in the mix in order to be happy.

That's fair and I do not disagree. But put another way - there is a large set of emotions out there of which happy is just a single member. But for some reason it is put on this pedestal as the holy grail. Maybe it's not? But I am getting pretty OT from the article so I apologize.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#118

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #75

akavi wrote: post #19

The article seems to be omitting an important piece of data: Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less? It implies by its framing that they're less happy, but that's not actually supported by any actual data in the piece (though to be fair, on cursory googling I wasn't able to find any evidence one way or another).

> Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less? This has been studied comprehensively over the years, that the results seem very clear: there is an ideal income level in terms of happiness. If you earn below or above that, you're probably sacrificing happiness. The ideal income level depends on cost of living, but on average, in the US, that income level seems to be a b…

I saw right around $200k in then current dollars around 1990ish, and you weren't sacrificing above that, on average, it's just that increasing income above that point had no further correlation with happiness/satisfaction measures.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#119

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

akarma wrote: post #72

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how being temporary means that a thing lacks meaning.

Agree with you here, but how does communism give meaning? For me, I've grown up in a capitalist society, with parents from a communist one. My sense of meaning in life comes from navigating through this environment (our laws, rules, societies, etc.), and trying to make the most of it (and earn a healthy living) to provide for my family, and make sure that I and everyone I care about have long, healthy, enjoyable live…

I never said anything about communism, and neither did the GP for that matter, you can blame Jon for bringing that term to the table.

>My sense of meaning in life comes from navigating through this environment (our laws, rules, societies, etc.), and trying to make the most of it (and earn a healthy living) to provide for my family, and make sure that I and everyone I care about have enjoyable lives together.

> If we were in a communist society (and not one that's post-scarcity which seems far, far off), I wouldn't be able to do this

Why not? It's just a different environment, different set of rules, and different challenges. Some people navigated communism well and found meaning, many others did not.

The GP seemed to be using the label of capitalism to apply to sociopathic profit-seeking-for-its-own-sake, as opposed to the loosely defined economic and political model of capitalism. In that sense, what they're saying makes a lot of sense.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#120

Post by toasterlovin » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #33

Murdoch wrote: post #17

The rich are depressed, the middle-class is shrinking and fearful, the poor are hopeless. I'm gonna take a leap here and say maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning. I found it interesting that a person in the article who made $1.2M a year was still depressed in thinking they were wasting their lives and it was all meaningless. I ask myself, does this person have children? a famil…

I disagree about it being religion specifically, but I would say that people need a better philosophy, a model of reality, to understand why the things they think will make them happy don't.

I think it's useful to divorce the concept Religion from the concept of God in your mind. IMO, the religions of the future will be God-less. If you look at the jobs that religions typically do, a lot of the ground is being covered by science (telling a story about how we came to exist and what our purpose is) and the rest is being covered by political ideologies (how we should live our lives and how we should relate to other people).

Someone is going to figure out how to marry those two together someday...