America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#71

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

akavi wrote: post #19

The article seems to be omitting an important piece of data: Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less? It implies by its framing that they're less happy, but that's not actually supported by any actual data in the piece (though to be fair, on cursory googling I wasn't able to find any evidence one way or another).

I think it goes like this: You make $X. You'd like more, you see there are things that you could do with more money, and so you're kind of unhappy. But you don't get your hopes up for those things, because you only make $X, and there's no point.

Now you make $(X + Y). Now some of those things become possible that you didn't dare let yourself dream about before. The problem is, you gained $Y in income, but the amount of things that became possible is 10 * $Y. You could do any one of the things that became possible, but you can't do all of them. So now they're realistic dreams, but you still can't do (most of) them.

For many people, this makes them less happy then they were, because the gap between dreams and reality got wider, even though they actually can do at least one thing more than they could before.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#72

Post by akarma » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #25

ForHackernews wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is fundamentally empty. Unless you're religious: you live for a while then you die. Maybe you successfully procreated, and your descendants live until something gets them too. Eventually climate change, or asteroids or supernova gets everyone left.

I don't see how being temporary means that a thing lacks meaning.

Agree with you here, but how does communism give meaning?

For me, I've grown up in a capitalist society, with parents from a communist one. My sense of meaning in life comes from navigating through this environment (our laws, rules, societies, etc.), and trying to make the most of it (and earn a healthy living) to provide for my family, and make sure that I and everyone I care about have long, healthy, enjoyable lives together.

If we were in a communist society (and not one that's post-scarcity which seems far, far off), I wouldn't be able to do this... and I don't know how you can argue that there's no meaning to the pursuit of a better world for everyone (with small exceptions, creating value is necessary for making money in a capitalistic society), reaping the rewards of that value creation, and making sure that it benefits and protects those I love.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#73

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

naravara wrote: post #22

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

- He had received an offer at a start-up, and he would have loved to take it, but it paid half as much, and he felt locked into a lifestyle that made this pay cut impossible. “My wife laughed when I told her about it,” he said. Sounds like a good wife to me, and this "pay cut" is making 500k-600k instead of 1.2 million, what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't…

>what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't afford to live on 500-600k. The one where you lock into a mortgage and a car that assumes a $1.2M salary to keep ahead of. It's really easy to let your lifestyle expenses balloon, especially in a high-COL city where minor increases in living space/amenities can end up costing large amounts of money.

> where minor increases in living space/amenities can end up costing large amounts of money.

It is pretty crazy how little extra money buys you. E.g. in NYC, the only differences between a $2,000 month apartment and a $20,000 a month apartment are going to be things like location, granite countertops, a well-designed bathroom, and better windows. But in most cases the actual floor space and layout is going to be almost identical.

Clearly those things are worth something, but it's easy to see how the work and stress of paying for those accents is to result in a net negative happiness for many if not most people.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#74

Post by C1sc0cat » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

What % of that million are you spending

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#75

Post by JohnFen » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

akavi wrote: post #19

The article seems to be omitting an important piece of data: Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less? It implies by its framing that they're less happy, but that's not actually supported by any actual data in the piece (though to be fair, on cursory googling I wasn't able to find any evidence one way or another).

> Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less?

This has been studied comprehensively over the years, that the results seem very clear: there is an ideal income level in terms of happiness. If you earn below or above that, you're probably sacrificing happiness.

The ideal income level depends on cost of living, but on average, in the US, that income level seems to be a bit north of $100,000/yr.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#76

Post by eclipxe » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

dilyevsky wrote: post #52

uptown wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What world are they living in where startups are paying $500-$600k?

If “startup” means “pre IPO” then there quite a few places in town that go up to this for very senior roles.

Uber, Lyft, AirBnb....500k+ for Sr & Manager roles.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#77

Post by StrictDabbler » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

jblow wrote: post #14

minikites wrote: post #3

>“I feel like I’m wasting my life,” he told me. “When I die, is anyone going to care that I earned an extra percentage point of return? My work feels totally meaningless.” Capitalists are realizing the fundamental emptiness of capitalism. It's hard to have a sense of purpose when your entire life is spent making a number on a spreadsheet into a slightly larger number for the benefit of someone even more elite than yo…

If this is your thesis you’ll have to explain how e.g. Communism totally did not have this problem.

Showing that system X has characteristic Y in no way requires showing that systems P, Q, R, S do not have characteristic Y. They may or may not.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#78

Post by C1sc0cat » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #9

randomacct3847 wrote: post #2

I think there was a Blind post a few weeks ago where 40% said they were depressed despite most making $300k-$600k/year

I think this is a quintessentially American slash Protestant-work-ethicy sentence. Why is anyone surprised that people who work so much that they don't have a life, meaningful relationships to other people or a vibrant social circle are depressed? If you optimize for making lots of money, that's (hopefully? probably?) what you will achieve. But it's very misguided to think that having a lot of money is how you become…

Or stress at work maybe thats a big cause of depression

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#79

Post by shrimp_emoji » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #69

ForHackernews wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could anything mean anything when pretty soon (in a cosmological sense) there won't be any such thing as a mind in which meaning could exist?

Well in that case, since the universe itself is ultimately doomed, why not delude ourselves into believing that there is, in fact, meaning in our lives so that the remainder of our life isn't spent in misery? I submit that the "fake" subjective meaning and some "real" objective meaning are indistinguishable.

And how do you know that the black of our heat death isn't the white of more universes and civilizations than there's ever been before but which we'll never see not that it matters except in an absurdly selfish way? :3

That's what a Nine Inch Nails song taught me once.

(But, given that we don't know what most matter or energy that makes up the Universe is, it feels a little silly to anchor meaning to current cosmological knowledge. Maybe a nice meaning to adopt is to improve that knowledge because we might discover ways to insulate against heat death indefinitely or something. Although you likely won't be doing that at the salaries in the OP.)

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#80

Post by prewett » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

QualityReboot wrote: post #64

I just don't understand this at all. If you can earn a million a year, do it for 3-5 years, never have to work again, and pursue your passions in life. I think the problem for most workers is the lifetime of toil, not the meaninglessness of the work. I'd happily dig ditches for 8-12 hours a day for 3 years if I knew I was completely financially independent with millions in the bank that. Actually, I'd rather do that…

Meaninglessness creates the toil. It's not toil if it's meaningful, it's merely physical or stressful or whatever the hard part of the particular job entails.