Ironic too is the fact that the book was banned at "Nathan Hale High School." Leave it to literary fools to name a high school for a man who, while depicted as a hero, was uncovered as a spy after confiding that very fact in the people on which he was spying. Nathan Hale was a fool, and so are this school's administrators.
Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
111–120 of 162 posts
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
The person writing the complaint letters repeatedly referred to the books as "non-fiction". See page 10 and 12 in the parent comment's PDF link.
But you weren't quoting it, you were calling them non-fiction yourself... and by any definition possible they are fiction.
At the point I was writing them I was just paraphrasing the text. When I wrote non-fiction my mind converted it to "fiction".
I'd call it a primed typo. She does use the term non-fiction multiple times, although I don't think anyone could believe they are.
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#113I realize the 'ban' is because of the Native American/savages angle, but now that the book comes up I'd like to ask: I read Brave New World expecting a dystopic society, but failed to understand why the world that is described is dystopic. Huxley seems to go out of his way to ascribe all sorts of pejorative attributes to the society in the book, to the point where the promiscuous sex lives of the inhabitants are pres…
I had a similar problem at the end of the book, in that it's difficult to describe a world where poverty does not exist and where no one really suffers as a dystopia. ("a society characterized by human misery, as squalor, oppression, disease, and overcrowding.")
Why I feel it's a bad world... Stunting natural fetal growth and then torturing small children to condition them into complacent compliance with their destined roles seems morally indefensible to me.
(Incidentally, soma was repeatedly described as side-effect free. I'm curious where you read it as having destructive qualities.)
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#114It is a bit more nuanced. As pointed out by the appeal record ( http://www.seattleschools.org/area/board/10-11agendas/111710... ) there were three required non-fiction books for the 10th grade list: BNW, Othello, and Lord of the Flies. Apparently all three make reference to native or indigenous people as "savages". And then apparently in one lecture they promoted an inaccurate view as to why we have reservations. It'…
Perhaps we should concentrate on why people are so offended when characters in a book say "nigger" or "savage".
Really? Is that something that you really need to concentrate on?
And honestly, are people that offended? What percentage of ppl in the US care? What percentage of Blacks and NI care about Huck Finn and BNW respectively?
Maybe the saddest thing is that people like Rbanffy will use this to fuel a conspiracy that there is some nationwide outrage around these books, when none exists.
I guarantee you there is a thousand times more outrage in the US over the existence of the Koran.
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#115I realize the 'ban' is because of the Native American/savages angle, but now that the book comes up I'd like to ask: I read Brave New World expecting a dystopic society, but failed to understand why the world that is described is dystopic. Huxley seems to go out of his way to ascribe all sorts of pejorative attributes to the society in the book, to the point where the promiscuous sex lives of the inhabitants are pres…
I had a similar problem at the end of the book, in that it's difficult to describe a world where poverty does not exist and where no one really suffers as a dystopia. ("a society characterized by human misery, as squalor, oppression, disease, and overcrowding.") Why I feel it's a bad world... Stunting natural fetal growth and then torturing small children to condition them into complacent compliance with their destin…
"and then torturing small children to condition them into complacent compliance with their destined roles seems morally indefensible to me."
Yeah that's a good point. Initially I classified that with the 'minor issues' I mentioned, that I felt he just introduced to scare the reader, but revisiting it it seems like it's a pretty fundamental part of the described system, if you can't engineer the fetuses into children who are already happy and OK with their place in society. Then again, it's been a while since I read it, wasn't the engineering meant to produce A or B or whatever type people, and the scene with the children not so much about conditioning their place in society but something else? Sorry I'd have to dig out the book.
(I know this sounds like I'm advocating for engineering fetuses to be complacent children but I'm not - I'm just saying that in the system in the book as a whole I don't see much of a problem with it, much like genetically engineering fetuses to correct for a birth defect, if we could do that.)
"(Incidentally, soma was repeatedly described as side-effect free. I'm curious where you read it as having destructive qualities.)"
The mother of the protagonist, the one who was 'rescued from the savages' (sorry don't remember names), got a severe soma addiction that killed her in the end, no? I don't remember reading explicit mentions of being side-effect free. I thought there were several mentions of a maximum amount that people should take.
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps we should concentrate on why people are so offended when characters in a book say "nigger" or "savage".
Really? Is that something that you really need to concentrate on? And honestly, are people that offended? What percentage of ppl in the US care? What percentage of Blacks and NI care about Huck Finn and BNW respectively? Maybe the saddest thing is that people like Rbanffy will use this to fuel a conspiracy that there is some nationwide outrage around these books, when none exists. I guarantee you there is a thousand…
When did I imply there is a nationwide outrage? I only wonder why that mother was so annoyed by the term "savage" and why others are annoyed by "nigger" in fiction books written generations ago.
"People like Rbanffy"... I am not sure what you intend to imply by that.
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#117I realize the 'ban' is because of the Native American/savages angle, but now that the book comes up I'd like to ask: I read Brave New World expecting a dystopic society, but failed to understand why the world that is described is dystopic. Huxley seems to go out of his way to ascribe all sorts of pejorative attributes to the society in the book, to the point where the promiscuous sex lives of the inhabitants are pres…
I read Brave New World expecting a dystopic society, but failed to understand why the world that is described is dystopic. I'll quote a passage from the Wikipedia article on it that expresses just one frightening aspect of the society described in the book. Natural reproduction has been done away with and children are created, 'decanted' and raised in Hatcheries and Conditioning Centres, where they are divided into f…
The book also explicitly describes that these castes are perfectly happy being who they are. They are happy and proud to be in their caste and have no desires to be in another caste. All inhabitants are happy and feel at place in life. So now where's the problem? Is there an inherent moral evil in social strata, when those people have no desire for class mobility?
I mean I'm all in favor of letting and encouraging people to develop themselves into who they want to be, but the society in the book is one where everybody is everything he/she wants to be! I fail to understand the moral wrong in that.
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point is that "banned" requires some attempt to interfere with access. Taking something off a reading list isn't interfering with access. ("They won't read it if it isn't on the list" doesn't change things as it applies to everything that's not on the list and you're arguing that the reason matters.) There's nothing wrong with objecting to how a reading list is selected, but no matter what the reason, that process…
You're right, it isn't banning. How would you describe it? If we are to raise a banner against this person's effect on their area, we need to have a precise word that not only describes what's going on, but also reflects to the reader the strength of the defender's stance.
Why do we need a banner? Is the cause so lost that we must resort to equivalent rhetoric to win the book back to the reading list? And would a banner even be useful? For something nearly equivalent to a banner, how about mailing a bunch of copies of the book to everyone responsible for getting it removed.
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#119It is a bit more nuanced. As pointed out by the appeal record ( http://www.seattleschools.org/area/board/10-11agendas/111710... ) there were three required non-fiction books for the 10th grade list: BNW, Othello, and Lord of the Flies. Apparently all three make reference to native or indigenous people as "savages". And then apparently in one lecture they promoted an inaccurate view as to why we have reservations. It'…
Here's a story from a local blog that goes into greater detail.
http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2010/11/brave-new-wor...
Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? Is that something that you really need to concentrate on? And honestly, are people that offended? What percentage of ppl in the US care? What percentage of Blacks and NI care about Huck Finn and BNW respectively? Maybe the saddest thing is that people like Rbanffy will use this to fuel a conspiracy that there is some nationwide outrage around these books, when none exists. I guarantee you there is a thousand…
When did I imply there is a nationwide outrage? I only wonder why that mother was so annoyed by the term "savage" and why others are annoyed by "nigger" in fiction books written generations ago. "People like Rbanffy"... I am not sure what you intend to imply by that.
45 short years ago, use of the n-word was typically followed up by turning a firehose or a pack of dogs on people who just wanted to be treated like human beings -- this was happening, in modern America, while your parents were in grade school or high school (presumably).
You might not have been aware of that, given that you seem to think that everyone should just get over it and not be offended by things that don't offend you.