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Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

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Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#81

Post by Nitramp »

electromagnetic wrote: post #23
mtsmith85 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why this is being voted down... maybe because there isn't anything to back it up. But, I do think in a way it is a defacto ban. There will be some kids who seek out this book, but chances are those are not the kids that need to read this book. When you take important literature out of the classroom, you are preventing the kids who would at least pick up the main ideas from getting at those main ideas.

Edit: Just realized a key difference, I'm used to the GCSE reading lists not the US-style 'Required' Reading list. I remember getting Terry Pratchett novels in my reading list. A defacto ban is "We're removing it from our reading list, removing it from our library... but we not discouraging our students from reading the book". Removing it from a reading list isn't a defacto ban, it's modernization. If the kids at a s…

> If the kids at a specific school don't seem to respond well to a text, PULL IT.

That seems like a very weird understanding of education to me. The whole point of the exercise is getting children to read something they might otherwise miss. If students oppose a book's content - very good, you have a debate running, and you can clearly learn from that (e.g., Huxley's use of the term savages does not dehumanize them, quite the contrary).

Education is not about taking the easy path to something, it's about taking the hard path, and learning on the way.

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#82

Post by moconnor »

eru wrote: post #77
swombat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next thing you know, they will be banning books that use the word "niggardly." Worth pointing out, because when I saw this word while reading Hermann Hesse's Steppenwolf recently I did a double-take, that niggardly has absolutely nothing to do with "niggers". Niggardly means "miserly" or "stingy". It is based on "niggard", not "nigger", which means the same - a miser, a stingy person. The roots of this word are:…

I guess the philosopher Kant would have had some problems with his name in English. (In German Kant just sounds very similar to the name for edge Kante, and not female anatomy.) But I guess you get around that impasse by just pronouncing it wrong. (German pronunciation: [ɪˈmaːnu̯eːl ˈkant])

I've had philosophical discussions with Germans that ended abruptly because one party suddenly exclaimed 'Kant!'

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#83

Post by MarkSweep »

corin_ wrote: post #70
kenjackson wrote: post #25

It is a bit more nuanced. As pointed out by the appeal record ( http://www.seattleschools.org/area/board/10-11agendas/111710... ) there were three required non-fiction books for the 10th grade list: BNW, Othello, and Lord of the Flies. Apparently all three make reference to native or indigenous people as "savages". And then apparently in one lecture they promoted an inaccurate view as to why we have reservations. It'…

non -fiction?

The person writing the complaint letters repeatedly referred to the books as "non-fiction". See page 10 and 12 in the parent comment's PDF link.

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#84

Post by corin_ »

MarkSweep wrote: post #83
corin_ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

non -fiction?

The person writing the complaint letters repeatedly referred to the books as "non-fiction". See page 10 and 12 in the parent comment's PDF link.

But you weren't quoting it, you were calling them non-fiction yourself... and by any definition possible they are fiction.

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#85

Post by somabc »

eru wrote: post #79
andrew1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that the book is set in London, but I believe that the 'native reservation' that the characters visit is in fact in the US.

Or was it South America? I should read that book again. Interestingly one German translation is set in Berlin, and uses the names of German capitalists.

The reservation is in New Mexico

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#86

Post by rbanffy »

Legion wrote: post #53
alex_c wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, it doesn't FEEL like we live in particularly enlightened times... Although, objectively, we are probably simply living in amplified times - more people, more connections, more communication will lead to more progress than at any other time, but also to more situations like this. I think the problem, as is often the case, comes down to incentives. School officials have few incentives to make decisions on the si…

We live in a time where a book being removed from curriculum (not even "banned" outright) at some random Seattle high school is a story we're all here talking about. That's not bad. Could be a whole lot worse.

Yes, but will someone do something to prevent it?

At least I have the convenient excuse I live in Brazil. ;-)

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#87

Post by rbanffy »

dLuna wrote: post #67
grellas wrote: post #49

The Enlightenment was premised on the broad idea that people were rational and that, once education became widespread, reason would eventually stamp out superstition and other evils and would cause humanity to want to promote and defend liberty. This thinking broadly underlies the idea that we are continuing to progress as a species and will ultimately learn to solve the problems that historically have beset us. This…

4. A brave new world is set in LONDON, UK. Not that many native Americans in that neighborhood.

It's a single world state and the Savage Reservation where John was born is in New Mexico.

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#88

Post by rbanffy »

alanh wrote: post #8

> What Sense-Wilson and her daughter seem to be having trouble grasping is that the "savages" in the book are only called "savages" because the mainstream society which they aren't a part of is so perverted. In reality, Huxley's savages are indeed the heroes… Indeed. The “savage” reads Shakespeare, which no one else in the book does anymore, for example. It’s just like people wanting to ban Huck Finn because it uses…

> Indeed. The “savage” reads Shakespeare, which no one else in the book does anymore, for example.

Keep in mind John is the son of Thomas and Linda, both from outside the reservation, and shares very little with the natives.

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#89

Post by mapphusel »

sdh wrote: post #32

The book is about sterile, future society. "Savages" is completely relative. We'd all be considered savages by BNW standards. If that school focused more on educating and less on banning it, the student might have understood the context of the book.

It's not even relative: it's ironic. The term is used ignorantly by the people outside the reservation. The 'Savage' cares for his mother and reads Shakespeare, something that people outside the reservation don't do any more.

It's clear that Huxley does not regard the 'Savage' as being savage.

Re: Brave New World banned from High School curriculum

#90

Post by rbanffy »

ascuttlefish wrote: post #43
TomOfTTB wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that it is easier to jump to a conclusion than it is to stop and think. I think the problem is that our society gives in to stupid people if they scream loud enough. There always has been and always will be fools in the world. People who don't think, don't read and jump to anger as their first reaction. The difference here is the fool got her way because a school board full of people not wanting to c…

I think you've nailed it. Bill Maher asked the media '[C]ould you please stop pitting the ignorant vs. the educated and framing it as a "debate."' Acknowledging ignorant views and handling those who hold them with kids gloves is just another of many possible paths to Idiocracy.

Careful.

One of the cornerstones of democracy is that the ignorant will chose who also governs the educated if they are numerous enough.

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