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Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

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Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#21

Post by folbec »

r3bl wrote: post #4
gpm wrote: post #2

What does this mean procedurally? Is this a veto? A statement that is likely to effect an upcoming vote?

We'd need either 13 countries or any number of countries that represents 35% of the EU population to oppose this law. Last time, it was 8 countries representing 27% that opposed it. A handy voting calculator[0] gives us about 23.88% of the population using the countries listed here. This is (was?) a less-likely scenario to stop it. One final attempt will be when all the MEPs get a chance to vote on it. [0] https://ww…

If the vote is before brexit it's 23.88% after brexit it's 27.42%.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#22

Post by decebalus1 »

citilife wrote: post #6

The issue I see with the EU, is that it's essentially centralizing all the "countries" into "states". Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France. Personally, I think it's sad. It's as if we're watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.…

> With that, countries like the U.K., who have a strong national identity, can and should leave - if they want to be an independent nation.

I want what you're smoking. What are you talking about? Do the Scots identify with the Welsh or the Irish? The UK, as all countries is an artificial construct which did not 'organically' came to existence based on the 'national' awakening of Its population.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#23

Post by sc11 »

avar wrote: post #15
citilife wrote: post #6

The issue I see with the EU, is that it's essentially centralizing all the "countries" into "states". Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France. Personally, I think it's sad. It's as if we're watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.…

This is not at all what's happening. Structurally, those big countries can easily get outvoted, and to change EU law it needs to be proposed by the commission, which is voted in by the council, where all member states have an equal vote. It then needs to be passed by the parliament, where votes are proportional to population. There Germany and France have the most members, but just over 1/5 of the overall membership.…

> It then needs to be passed by the parliament, where votes are proportional to population.

Votes in the parliament aren't directly proportional to population in order to prevent large countries from dominating votes. Germany has 1 MEP per ~855k citizens, France ~870k while smaller countries like Belgium or Ireland have 1 MEP per 400-500k citizens.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#24

Post by mtgx »

citilife wrote: post #6

The issue I see with the EU, is that it's essentially centralizing all the "countries" into "states". Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France. Personally, I think it's sad. It's as if we're watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.…

I don't know what you mean by "centralized economy" but centralized markets have their (huge) benefits. Think about how much easier it is to launch a service within all the United States of America at once compared to launching it in all of the countries in the European Union. The language barrier is a huge obstacle, no doubt, but it's far from the only one.

Another way to look at "centralization" is from the point of view of "standardization" for markets and platforms, and that has huge benefits for startups and big companies alike.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#25

Post by pjc50 »

pslam wrote: post #13
citilife wrote: post #6

The issue I see with the EU, is that it's essentially centralizing all the "countries" into "states". Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France. Personally, I think it's sad. It's as if we're watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.…

You win at right wing talking-points bingo. The whole point of the EU is that Europe is better when it's together. There were multiple wars, involving the death of many millions, and that's just the last hundred years. Independence is just dressed up nationalism, and all the ugly facets it is made of.

> Independence is just dressed up nationalism, and all the ugly facets it is made of.

This really needs to be phrased better, because it's the argument for technocratic global soft dictatorship.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#26

Post by pjc50 »

DelightOne wrote: post #11
Someone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Copyright_in_the_... : ”At this point, the text will be reviewed by the European Parliament Committee on Legal Affairs, and then presented to the full European Parliament for a vote. Should the vote succeed, then each of the EU's member states have up to 24 months to introduce laws within their own countries to support the Directive.” So, this is a statement “we believe the…

> introduce laws within their own countries to support the Directive. Why so complicated? It seems a bad idea to have 28 different laws which generally say the same thing but with possibly small differences so it gets a minefield. No wonder EU is a difficult market. Who possibly thought that's a good idea?

Because, despite what people say, the countries of the EU are distinct countries with their own legal systems.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#27

Post by TadaScientist »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #16
citilife wrote: post #6

The issue I see with the EU, is that it's essentially centralizing all the "countries" into "states". Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France. Personally, I think it's sad. It's as if we're watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.…

The pedestal contemporary people put national identity on is just that, contemporary. National identities didn't arise naturally. Many of them were very thoughtfully and intentionally invented. For most of human history, the idea that people over a geography the size of Engalnd would see themselves as one people would've been ridiculous. It's really only in the last 200-400 years that people have accepted the nation…

Oh really? National identities didn't arise naturally? Ask the Greeks and the Italians

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#28

Post by Spearchucker »

citilife wrote: post #6

The issue I see with the EU, is that it's essentially centralizing all the "countries" into "states". Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France. Personally, I think it's sad. It's as if we're watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.…

Monetary policy without a fiscal policy to give it teeth is why Greece was able to use Germany's good credit rating to get a loan they couldn't repay.

And yes I believe the EU is becoming more like a federation. How do you think it isn't?

How is the central EU government deciding everything? The diesel laws in German cities aren't an EU law. France and Germany can't pass EU laws on their own.

My last point is based on belief. I cannot fathom why leavers in the UK believe the UK can be stronger alone. Or that the economy can grow without migrant workers and immigrants. Two are ALWAYS going to be stronger than one. And the EU has what, 27 member states (excluding the UK)?

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#29

Post by carom »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #16
citilife wrote: post #6

The issue I see with the EU, is that it's essentially centralizing all the "countries" into "states". Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France. Personally, I think it's sad. It's as if we're watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.…

The pedestal contemporary people put national identity on is just that, contemporary. National identities didn't arise naturally. Many of them were very thoughtfully and intentionally invented. For most of human history, the idea that people over a geography the size of Engalnd would see themselves as one people would've been ridiculous. It's really only in the last 200-400 years that people have accepted the nation…

Comments like this remind me how much I like California. It's nice to be in a place that doesn't conflate regional identity with race or religion. It was a surprise to me when living on the east coast how often people asked about my heritage.

My people are whoever comes down to Old Muscle Beach to work out, whoever is at the skate park. I'm super happy that those crowds are varied.

Re: Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive

#30

Post by grokys »

TadaScientist wrote: post #27
DubiousPusher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pedestal contemporary people put national identity on is just that, contemporary. National identities didn't arise naturally. Many of them were very thoughtfully and intentionally invented. For most of human history, the idea that people over a geography the size of Engalnd would see themselves as one people would've been ridiculous. It's really only in the last 200-400 years that people have accepted the nation…

Oh really? National identities didn't arise naturally? Ask the Greeks and the Italians

Italy was unified in 1871, in part by force. And many parts of Italy still resent that and consider themselves Sicilian, Napolitan etc rather than "Italian".

I can't speak for Greece, but Italy is a really BAD example of a "naturally arisen" national identity. In fact the (now second party) Northern League's sole purpose until Matteo Salvini was to split Northen Italy from the south.

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