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What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

nytimes.com

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Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#151

Post by unclebucknasty »

eruci wrote: post #149
tptacek wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that there are many coherent rational arguments in favor of affirmative action, and that what you're really having is a disagreement over some pretty complicated premises that are unlikely to be disposed of in short, pithy comments, right? I try hard to listen to conservatives despite being a liberal and have learned to dial my hackles down in conversations about race-based affirmative action because,…

[flagged]

>I do not think any race is inferior/superior to any other and as such people of all races should be treated equally in all fields of professional achievement

>Conservatives and Liberals should openly talk about these issues for the common good

What's difficult to process here is that you lay out a cogent argument--or at least a coherent rationale--for why you oppose affirmative action. Essentially, you believe no race is superior to others. That's great.

But, of course, people can plainly see that you are excluding the actual reason that affirmative action exists--having nothing to do with the inherent features of any race, and everything to do with historical racial inequities. And, it is very difficult to believe that you are unaware of these inequities (or their bases for affirmative action, for that matter).

Now, you can make the argument that you don't believe affirmative action is the appropriate remedy for past racial injustices. But, that's not the argument you're making. Instead, you ignore this salient factor and instead posit some saccharine, red-herring rationale for eliminating it. And, this must be purposeful. I mean, surely you don't earnestly believe that affirmative action is intended to mitigate inherent racial inferiorities (or do you?).

So, given this, it appears that you are not earnestly interested in "talking about these issues for the common good", to say the least.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#153

Post by dang »

porphyrogene wrote: post #139
thereare5lights wrote: post #136

At this time, only 4 hours old and 93 points, but is buried as #257 on the 9th page. What gives?

The moderators have a long-standing bias towards the political right. A black man with a PhD in Mathematics is not allowed to speak out about systemic racism on Hacker News.

Forgive me for sharing a sample of my collection:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15032682

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15585780

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15546533

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16134205

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17197581

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18664482

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=slamdance

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110004

I know how obvious it seems that the bias is against you, but that's mostly because you (i.e. any of us) are 1000x more likely to notice cases you dislike or disagree with.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#154

Post by eruci »

tptacek wrote: post #150
eruci wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I sense BS. As is the case here, a mediocre mathematician using the race card to score some political points. Wow, you sure took that to a great place. Can't imagine why you'd have a hard time having this kind of conversation with people.

I mean, real professionals focus on their work, not the color of their skin.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#155

Post by eruci »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #151
eruci wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I do not think any race is inferior/superior to any other and as such people of all races should be treated equally in all fields of professional achievement > Conservatives and Liberals should openly talk about these issues for the common good What's difficult to process here is that you lay out a cogent argument--or at least a coherent rationale--for why you oppose affirmative action. Essentially, you believe no…

"surely you don't earnestly believe that affirmative action is intended to mitigate inherent racial inferiorities (or do you?)."

Of course, I don't. That's not what I've been saying at all! No matter what it appears to your point of view.

The common good is optimized when the best people, regardless of their skin color, occupy the positions they deserve in all fields of professional activity.

The common good is also optimized by openly and fairly having these discussions, in a way that pushes people to see each other's point of view, hence pushing all sides towards the middle.

It is a way to prevent the election of extremists in high positions of power who then polarize us even further apart.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#156

Post by tptacek »

eruci wrote: post #154
tptacek wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sense BS. As is the case here, a mediocre mathematician using the race card to score some political points. Wow, you sure took that to a great place. Can't imagine why you'd have a hard time having this kind of conversation with people.

I mean, real professionals focus on their work, not the color of their skin.

All you know about this professional is that he was willing to talk to the NYT about how hard it is to be a black mathematician. That made you uncomfortable, and so you've constructed a whole mathematics code of conduct to forbid it that exists only in your head, which you further projected from to slander them about their competence.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#157

Post by tptacek »

eruci wrote: post #155
unclebucknasty wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not think any race is inferior/superior to any other and as such people of all races should be treated equally in all fields of professional achievement > Conservatives and Liberals should openly talk about these issues for the common good What's difficult to process here is that you lay out a cogent argument--or at least a coherent rationale--for why you oppose affirmative action. Essentially, you believe no…

"surely you don't earnestly believe that affirmative action is intended to mitigate inherent racial inferiorities (or do you?)." Of course, I don't. That's not what I've been saying at all! No matter what it appears to your point of view. The common good is optimized when the best people, regardless of their skin color, occupy the positions they deserve in all fields of professional activity. The common good is also…

The only point of view you're willing to entertain is your own, the one that says that "skin color" has no bearing on how people are treated professionally. When a credentialed professional tells the NYT that that hasn't been their experience, you take offense, and from your offense construct a claim that they must not be professional or even competent.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#158

Post by eruci »

eruci wrote: post #155
unclebucknasty wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not think any race is inferior/superior to any other and as such people of all races should be treated equally in all fields of professional achievement > Conservatives and Liberals should openly talk about these issues for the common good What's difficult to process here is that you lay out a cogent argument--or at least a coherent rationale--for why you oppose affirmative action. Essentially, you believe no…

"surely you don't earnestly believe that affirmative action is intended to mitigate inherent racial inferiorities (or do you?)." Of course, I don't. That's not what I've been saying at all! No matter what it appears to your point of view. The common good is optimized when the best people, regardless of their skin color, occupy the positions they deserve in all fields of professional activity. The common good is also…

Btw, to ascertain the competence for a given individual in a given field it is easy to check. Go to Google Scholar and look at the number of citations.

For Edray Goins it is a relatively low number, that's why I used the word "mediocre."

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#159

Post by unclebucknasty »

eruci wrote: post #155
unclebucknasty wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not think any race is inferior/superior to any other and as such people of all races should be treated equally in all fields of professional achievement > Conservatives and Liberals should openly talk about these issues for the common good What's difficult to process here is that you lay out a cogent argument--or at least a coherent rationale--for why you oppose affirmative action. Essentially, you believe no…

"surely you don't earnestly believe that affirmative action is intended to mitigate inherent racial inferiorities (or do you?)." Of course, I don't. That's not what I've been saying at all! No matter what it appears to your point of view. The common good is optimized when the best people, regardless of their skin color, occupy the positions they deserve in all fields of professional activity. The common good is also…

>Of course, I don't. That's not what I've been saying at all!

Right. So, the point is that if you know the purpose of affirmative action is not to mitigate racial inferiorities, yet you make the argument that affirmative action isn't needed because there aren't racial inferiorities, then your argument is obviously disingenuous.

That is, there's something else motivating your distate for affirmative action; something you'd clearly prefer to conceal. But, the rest of your comment offers a clue.

In any case, if you find people unwilling to engage in a discussion with you "for the common good", it's because they see through your transparent attempts at misdirection.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#160

Post by porphyrogene »

dang wrote: post #153
porphyrogene wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moderators have a long-standing bias towards the political right. A black man with a PhD in Mathematics is not allowed to speak out about systemic racism on Hacker News.

Forgive me for sharing a sample of my collection: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15032682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15585780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15546533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16134205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17197581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18664482 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=slamdance https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110004 I…

Your handling of this comment section was irresponsible. If you cannot handle this responsibility you should ban submissions and comments dealing with any and all social issues and allow only technical discussion. You have allowed a hateful element to silence a voice that spoke truth to power by making simple observations about how mathematicians handle race over a course of decades. The moderation of this submission was unreasonable and discompassionate.

Edit: To my brigader bot, I am responding directly to a moderator. I want him to read this comment. Flagging it immediately after I post is actually helpful. Downvoting it only helps to prove my point.

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