I think subtle racism is a big problem. It can be felt without being verbally communicated to you, the actions from the perpetrators are frustrating and you feel helpless. The perpetrators would not be corrected because they said nothing wrong. Worst of all is that you don’t get a fair shake, and you might be dismissed at the slightest hint of incoherence and sometimes you feel like the perpetrators are waiting for you to fail.
What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
131–140 of 165 posts
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is such a thing as the "token gaijin" at Japanese companies - the foreigner who can show to visitors how international company this is. Generally very little influence or path of progress. Also just the knowledge of this phenomenon can cause self-doubt for the individual. White people office workers Japan are of course not the same as black mathematicians in the U.S., but I don't believe that it's not contribut…
I just don't think 'my prejudices are actually true' is the conclusion to draw from 'tokenism exists', that is all.
What prejudices did avip claim were confirmed by tokenism?
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#133People from poor demographics in general are discriminated against in various ways. Want to learn math but come from a poor neighborhood? Good luck. You’re probably locked in a school system with bad teachers and few if any math courses beyond calculus. Even if you’re talented you probably know 0 people that can help you. Now your growth is prematurely stunted. That kid from a better off family that shows talent in m…
> You’re probably locked in a school system with bad teachers and
It's worse than that. You're probably locked in a broken family with bad parent(s). When your parent(s) don't care about your education because they are uneducated themselves, are poor role models (addicts, etc.), THAT sets you up for the failure fast track.
No amount of money going to schools and teachers can fix that at scale unless you basically make the school a boarding school and replace the parents with mentors and role models at said boarding school.
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because if you toss off a low-information provocation in an inflammatory thread, that's trolling whether you meant to or not. (But indulging in an in-your-face phrase like "safe spaces" makes me think that maybe you did mean to.) The result tends to be flamewar. Flamewars are equal parts dumb and predictable. Also, we're trying for this place not to turn into scorched earth.
really did not intend to troll in the first place - maybe a little in the second. I find the sensitivity level here a bit shocking. thanks for the response though - I'll take the feedback and add supporting info in the future.
Appreciated!
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#135"Fewer than 1 percent of doctorates in math are awarded to African-Americans" So? We have affirmative action policies for university admissions. If an Asian needs an "X" SAT score, and an African-American "X - δ" to enter university, yet, fewer of them make it to the higher levels, what do we do? Have different standards for awarding doctorates based on race? Western civilization is in crisis because of these social…
I mean, doesn't the madness stop once the identity breakdown in a given field roughly matches the identity in the general population? If X% of people are Black, I would expect given no structural impediments that roughly X% of Mathematicians would also be Black. The how to get there in the quickest and fairest way is a political question.
>If X% of people are Black, I would expect given no structural impediments that roughly X% of Mathematicians would also be Black.
What makes you assume that? Do you feel the same about the NBA?
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#136At this time, only 4 hours old and 93 points, but is buried as #257 on the 9th page. What gives?
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Some people call it racism, specially if it's pointing at white people. I call it your life your choice.
>A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Are you making this claim or is there evidence that supports it? Would be interested to see a study on that
How is it possible for anything to emerge from nature which is not natural? So far there is little evidence that anything humans do is above just a bunch of natural responses to external stimuli. However just because something is natural does not make it beneficial or desirable
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no place in this NYT profile where Goins makes any claim about a "full faculty of racist bigots who see maintaining white supremacy as their primary goal", so that's not a reasonable question to ask.
Looks like you've dismissed my question on technicality. I have to admit this is not exactly the answer I was looking for.
Not that it matters, but just because my nerd brain won't let this go until I type this out: refuting the core premise of your question isn't a "technicality". The correct answer to "is it really that bad", in this case, is "NaN fssst bzzrt pop!"
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#139At this time, only 4 hours old and 93 points, but is buried as #257 on the 9th page. What gives?
The moderators have a long-standing bias towards the political right. A black man with a PhD in Mathematics is not allowed to speak out about systemic racism on Hacker News.
Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician
#140I don't doubt that there absolutely exists prejudices in this case but I also wonder how many will also be created by one self in that situation just because how the human mind works. I used to have quite a lot of acne and it really got to my head. It of course did affect how people treated me, especially girls, because acne is not very attractive however after a while I probably read into things way more than I shou…
So you believe your experience with acne could be a lot like people experiencing racism?
The comment you're replying to is attempting to empathize with the subject of this NYT profile, and to build up a mental framework for why their lived experience might resonate with experiences of their own. You have to want the comment to be dismissive to read it that way.
This thread is full of skeptical comments claiming certainty that not only is there good reason there aren't many black mathematicians, but also that this particular mathematician probably got his position through tokenism. Those comments are worth the kind of snark you mustered. This one wasn't.
I don't think acne is a very good facsimile of racism, and the comment you're replying to didn't say that it was either, so you're doubly out of line here, by hammering on an argument they didn't even make.
There are probably a lot of ways in which the commenter's experience doesn't come close to fully capturing what it's like for a person of color to fight one's way through the ranks of a profession that is overwhelmingly "white". It'd be useful to hear some of those ways! That would have been a productive response.