Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

cdm.link

111–120 of 338 posts

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#111
post #53

Can someone provide a good quality example of code that would bug on system clock updates? I have a hard time thinking about one. Especially as these system clock updates shouldn't change the time for more than a few seconds, at least if you have automatic updates turned on (and the fix in the article is to turn that off). I'm not interested in examples that shouldn't have made it through a merge request in the first…

This bug is caused by the Mac time daemon stealing 10ms+ of resources from the scheduler (perhaps because of it being a wrong thread priority, or the clock hardware taking a very long time to respond to an update request? who knows), not because audio drivers use the real time value for any reason (they don't).

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#112
post #7

That's a weird glitch, and generally I'm not a fan of apple hardware (I think it's overpriced, that their keyboards suck, that they don't have enough ports, and I don't enjoy working in osx), but this article comes off as almost biblically haughty. Apple should have tests around clock updates affecting external audio quality? I mean, maybe after this bug being discovered, sure, but before, was that a connection that…

Last time I checked sunflower audio wasnt working either.

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#113

Apple appears to be coming to some sort of head at this point. This is speaking as someone heavily invested in Apple products and shares. Their iPhones have reached a peak, where it appears people are no longer willing to pay so much for them. They are too damn expensive, with nothing to justify their costs. I am one of the morons who upgraded to the XS, but only because I needed the 512GB storage. If not for the inc…

China has people no longer willing to pay for iPhones. Everywhere else it's not changed much year on year. There was great demand for stock buybacks, Apple resisted for a while. I'm surprised to hear a need for 512GB storage, I'd be interested to know how that's used. The upgrade to XS is only minor from the X according to the reviews I've seen/seen summarised. A yearly upgrade isn't common, isn't their target.

>> I'm surprised to hear a need for 512GB storage

How should I store my lossless audio files then? I have a 6s and I am continuously having issues with space but I won't give up the jack port and nothing can change that. HiFi audio needs additional 10 years before it becomes viable on wireless (battery times, quality, etc.).

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#114

Semi-related: But does anyone know why unplugging headphones while audio is muted causes the audio to become unmuted? This is easily my least favorite bug and results in a 10 second shuffle of frantically finding the mute button again, sometimes with the laptop closed. It seems like something that would never pass QA in previous iterations of Apple, though I could be remembering the past more fondly than was true.

    if (unplugged) {
        mute = false;
    }
Some Mac developers thought this was a good idea. It's clever on paper I guess, but it completely breaks the typical sane user's expectation of volume control behavior.

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#115

Apple appears to be coming to some sort of head at this point. This is speaking as someone heavily invested in Apple products and shares. Their iPhones have reached a peak, where it appears people are no longer willing to pay so much for them. They are too damn expensive, with nothing to justify their costs. I am one of the morons who upgraded to the XS, but only because I needed the 512GB storage. If not for the inc…

When it comes to (smart)phones, you don't really have much choice. You either consent to being exploited by Google, or you pay a pound of flesh to Apple. As for the pricing of the phones, nobody is forcing you to upgrade every year. I've done that ever since the original iPhone came out, but when i bought the X, i also decided to only upgrade every 2-3 years to justify the cost. MacBooks are a sad story though. I'm "…

True. We need a 3rd player on this market that does not do surveillance and produces products with reasonable price. A business focused phone would be great. There are very few applications that you could get away.

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#116
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it truly bizarre that there are people who actually still buy a Mac Pro. Just look at the shop page. They sell that thing for 4k$ with 16GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. It's completely bonkers. If you need a high-powered audio machine with dedicated PCI-E ports today(!), there's simply no alternative to a Windows PC. And yes, Windows can do audio just fine; you either invest the work and carefully choose components an…

There used to be some timing issues with Windows audio 10 years ago that forced people to go for alternatives but I think it got fixed in Windows 7. Now Apple's ignorance and total lack of innovation makes people move to Windows. I think it just shows that market forces work.

Yes, Windows used to be terrible when it comes to audio, but that was a long time ago. Of course, any badly written driver can still destroy everything, that is why you have to choose hardware carefully. But with a good ASIO driver you will achieve very low latencies without problems.

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#117
post #44
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that it's hard to determine all the possible situations you could be in -- changing the time during a DST transition while using the Islamic calendar and so on. Formal methods are relatively inaccessible in general, but I wonder if you could make an easy-to-use verification tool specifically focused on date/time code.

You are right that it's near impossible and unpractical to test all edgecases. But your example goes into the wrong direction. Shouldn't you build your system completely agnostic of time interpretation changes? A DST transition is not actually changing the time. The bug here seems to be coming from system clock updates. I honestly also never thought testing against system clock updates. If I schedule something to hap…

This is why you should be using the system's monotonic clock source; they steadily increase and never shift backwards or forwards. They aren't, however, guaranteed to have any relation to real time between two measurements.

There is plenty of code that has problems with time shifts, simply look at how often software crashes or misbehaves when there are leapseconds. Cloudflare experiences some of their code crashing because over a leap second, the time a request took suddenly became negative.

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#118
post #7

That's a weird glitch, and generally I'm not a fan of apple hardware (I think it's overpriced, that their keyboards suck, that they don't have enough ports, and I don't enjoy working in osx), but this article comes off as almost biblically haughty. Apple should have tests around clock updates affecting external audio quality? I mean, maybe after this bug being discovered, sure, but before, was that a connection that…

Reliable low-latency audio is the reason why musicians buy Macs. Linux isn't an option, because the proprietary software we need generally isn't available for Linux. Windows is massively problematic because of the Deferred Procedure Call mechanism - badly written device drivers can steal priority from the audio device driver, causing dropouts and glitches in audio playback and recording. If you're going to use a Windows machine for pro audio use, you really need to buy from a specialist system integrator.

Pro audio users have been loyal Apple customers through thick and thin, but a lot of us have lost faith in Apple's ability or willingness to serve creative professionals. The poor price-to-performance ratio of the trash can Mac Pro was a major source of frustration, especially given the loss of functionality compared to the "cheese grater" Mac Pro; it's really not fit for purpose without spending an extra $1500 on a Sonnet xMac rack kit. The complete lack of hardware updates since 2013 added insult to injury, leading a lot of people to defect to Windows out of sheer desperation. This bug isn't just a nuisance, it strikes at the heart of why musicians continue to pay a serious premium for hardware that often isn't particularly well suited to their needs.

I think Apple are seriously underestimating the risk to their brand of losing creative professionals. The ubiquity of Macs in recording studios and edit suites and on DJ stages said something powerful about the kind of company Apple is and the kind of people who use Macs. It justified the status of Macs as the premium choice for serious creatives. It created an aspirational halo, even if you only really use your computer for web browsing, Google Docs and editing a few photos. Apple are haemorrhaging their most loyal and influential customers, because they don't seem to care about the Mac platform.

That doesn't really matter right now, because they're still selling huge volumes of iPhones at healthy margins, but it could come back to haunt them in a few short years. Chinese smartphone manufacturers are stealing Apple's lunch in emerging markets and making a serious dent in the west; iPhone revenues are declining and it's entirely plausible that the decline could mark the start of a long-term trend. Apple have in effect become a luxury brand that happens to make phones, which has created the existential threat of simply falling out of fashion.

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of salt in this thread. I have a Mac because I enjoy it the most for software development. It's not a status symbol because, well, almost everyone here has a Mac. The alternatives are Windows-based laptops - who often lag behind software development support (e.g. ports), or Linux which is still just not good enough for desktop use. I use Windows at home for not-development and have used both Windows and Linux fo…

I have been using linux desktops for almost 10 years as my primary environments. When I occasionally return to windows, I find that it is less usable for how I utilize my computer.

Funny I look at Linux on the desktop as less and less usable as things like systemd and KDE 4 and whatever version of Gnome that's equally broken.

Re: Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

#120

I'm a former full-time musician working as an audio dev those days. Developing audio-plugins (AU) make you use a lot of DAWs (digital-audio-workstations). There's some issue with Logic Pro X that has been logged for quite a while now. A few days ago I heard the reason it isn't addressed for more than a year now... The developer in-charge on that feature isn't allowed to access other parts of code needed for fixing th…

Did you ever come across how they map parameters inside the VST/AU standard? Everyone else does 0 -> 1. They do 1 -> 120 or something completely boffed.

I'm not surprised given Logic's legacy baggage from the days eMagic was an independent company. Everything was stored in an event list, which would try to fit many things into MIDI-like terminology. Not surprised if they tried to quantize parameters for software instruments the way they would for hardware instruments, and this has stayed the case almost two decades later.
Post reply on HN