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What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

nytimes.com

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Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#141

Post by grzm »

thereare5lights wrote: post #136

At this time, only 4 hours old and 93 points, but is buried as #257 on the 9th page. What gives?

From the FAQ:

> "How are stories ranked?"

> "The basic algorithm divides points by a power of the time since a story was submitted. Comments in threads are ranked the same way."

> "Other factors affecting rank include user flags, anti-abuse software, software which demotes overheated discussions, and moderator intervention."

From what I've seen, having so many more comments than points is one of the triggers for the "overheated discussions". Probably not the only factor, but probably a significant one.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#142

Post by licebmi__at__ »

tptacek wrote: post #104
stcredzero wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to learn math but come from a poor neighborhood? Good luck. You’re probably locked in a school system with bad teachers and few if any math courses beyond calculus. I've read and listened to a number of accounts about how peers in poor neighborhoods are the biggest barrier to academic achievement. Even if you’re talented you probably know 0 people that can help you. Now your growth is prematurely stunted. Or wor…

Hold on, let me catch up here: your poor-neighborhood peers tell you you're "sexually inadequate" and therefore you go on to not be a mathematician? Can you connect those dots for me?

I was told even by cousins and close family that "reading so much would make me a fag" and that I should play more soccer. And certainly didn't help my academic career when the bullying I suffered stopped when I started behaving like a problem student.

In my case, this kind of discouragement actually helped me pursue a career in STEM, as it was the perfect excuse to leave my city, but I don't thinks this kind of environment is healthy and nurturing for someone's dreams.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#143

Post by archagon »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #128
lotaezenwa wrote: post #44

This mathematician is not stupid. I would be inclined to believe he understands statistics/anecdotes/academia better than you reading this right now. We only get a small glimpse into the intricacies of his world view and life, and this is what he has chosen to share. This is the story he is telling. Ask yourself why someone in this position would tell this story based on years of lived experience. Do you believe him?…

May I ask you a question? Not for the sake of argument or anything - I'm genuinely curious. Yes, racist people exist. No doubt here. As do exist many other nasties: dishonest salesmen, stupid teachers, dumb police officers, incompetent doctors - you name it. They make the headlines, but I firmly believe there's not that many of them and most of people are fully adequate and reasonable. From the article it sounds like…

Most racism is not that overt, or even conscious. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most people who behaved in a racist manner didn't view themselves as racist in the slightest.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#144

Post by stunt »

tptacek wrote: post #104
stcredzero wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to learn math but come from a poor neighborhood? Good luck. You’re probably locked in a school system with bad teachers and few if any math courses beyond calculus. I've read and listened to a number of accounts about how peers in poor neighborhoods are the biggest barrier to academic achievement. Even if you’re talented you probably know 0 people that can help you. Now your growth is prematurely stunted. Or wor…

Hold on, let me catch up here: your poor-neighborhood peers tell you you're "sexually inadequate" and therefore you go on to not be a mathematician? Can you connect those dots for me?

> Can you connect those dots for me?

Living in a bad environment definitely does influence your success. Are there exceptions? Yes, plenty of them. But that doesn’t mean that there is no impact for majority of people.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#145

Post by afiori »

smallgovt wrote: post #99
Mirioron wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how affirmative action makes sense. I can understand spending more resources to catch people up from poor backgrounds, so that they can pass the bar, but I don't see why you would want to lower the bar.

One reason is that, as as society, we've agreed that we value (and want to reward) hard work over god-given talent. So, if there is a prestigious position available, we would rather award it to someone who is slightly less capable but had to work much harder to get where he/she is. This value structure arguably hurts productivity, but it's not inferior in an absolute sense. It all depends on what we value.

I disagree with you motivation, affirmative action purpose is to give a second chance to people who had a bad hand at life: you had a terrible high school? maybe you can still become a fantastic Ph.D. if you got the chance at a better university.

It is not about hard work but how exam and unidimensional numbers are a poor way to grade humans when you consider a variety of backgrounds.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#146

Post by helen___keller »

deytempo wrote: post #137
helen___keller wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Are you making this claim or is there evidence that supports it? Would be interested to see a study on that

How is it possible for anything to emerge from nature which is not natural? So far there is little evidence that anything humans do is above just a bunch of natural responses to external stimuli. However just because something is natural does not make it beneficial or desirable

I don't know how this relates to my comment, sorry. I'm asking if the guy above me had seen evidence that substantiates his claim that there's a significant preference to people dating within their own race

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#147

Post by justtopost »

kauffj wrote: post #34

> For the record, here is a small sample of other communities where black people are strongly underrepresented: > Runners (3%). Bikers (6%). Furries (2%). Wall Street senior management (2%). Occupy Wall Street protesters (unknown but low, one source says 1.6% but likely an underestimate). BDSM (unknown but low) Tea Party members (1%). American Buddhists (~2%). Bird watchers (4%). Environmentalists (various but univer…

Without specifics, I have to say my experince says your numbers are invented at best.

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#148

Post by belorn »

helen___keller wrote: post #122
python_gt_r wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Some people call it racism, specially if it's pointing at white people. I call it your life your choice.

>A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Are you making this claim or is there evidence that supports it? Would be interested to see a study on that

While I can not bring up the research paper from memory, there is such evidence but it more funnier than that. Going directly by vague recollection of the lecture, there is a bias towards X distances of relativeness, something like 3rd or 4th cousin, where you get a statistical bias in a population. You also get this in animal studies. If I recall correctly it was part of when they talked about gene selection theory, and also (very vaguely recalled) a short aside into game theory for maximized gene transmission with minimal risk for genetic errors.

Technically this has nothing to do with racial and ethnic groups, but as an outcome it correlates.

(Edit: Remembering an other detail. The human study was a olfaction test where participants felt more attracted to the sweat of said relativeness. It add to the (in my view) comical aspect of it all).

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#149

Post by eruci »

tptacek wrote: post #90
eruci wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! Should have used the word "irrational" instead.

You understand that there are many coherent rational arguments in favor of affirmative action, and that what you're really having is a disagreement over some pretty complicated premises that are unlikely to be disposed of in short, pithy comments, right? I try hard to listen to conservatives despite being a liberal and have learned to dial my hackles down in conversations about race-based affirmative action because,…

[flagged]

Re: What It's Like to Be a Black Mathematician

#150

Post by tptacek »

eruci wrote: post #149
tptacek wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that there are many coherent rational arguments in favor of affirmative action, and that what you're really having is a disagreement over some pretty complicated premises that are unlikely to be disposed of in short, pithy comments, right? I try hard to listen to conservatives despite being a liberal and have learned to dial my hackles down in conversations about race-based affirmative action because,…

[flagged]

I sense BS. As is the case here, a mediocre mathematician using the race card to score some political points.

Wow, you sure took that to a great place. Can't imagine why you'd have a hard time having this kind of conversation with people.

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