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Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

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Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#91

Post by taneq »

cedex12 wrote: post #89
taneq wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have no issue with it, but then I have no issue with the Lena image. Of course, anyone who does have an issue with Lena would have equal issue with a male equivalent, if they're not a hypocrite.

> if they're not a hypocrite. I don't agree at all with your statement here. There is a whole historical/social difference at play here; taking it into account doesn't make you a hypocrite. (I hate the "hypocrite" judgement. So easy to cast and rarely true)

Well I hate the way that "it's OK to do something to a person of one race/gender/subgroup that it's not OK to do to a person of a different race/gender/subgroup, for some historical reason" has become the new justification for all sorts of prejudice, so I guess we're even.

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#92

Post by bcOpus »

olalonde wrote: post #58
Pharmakon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I’m not bothered, and while the image isn’t pornographic, it is from Playboy which does make it at least porn adjacent. I see it’s use less as a matter of offensiveness or some headfuck of “intersectionality” and more as just immature and unprofessional. Sexuality is great, it’s everywhere, and I think it has literally nothing to do with this issue. I can understand not wanting a Playboy model to be the st…

I guess most people using it have no idea it's a picture from Playboy, nor a nude picture, nor a controversial picture. I used it a lot myself when I was working on content based image retrieval simply because all the literature was using it. It never even occurred to me I was being controversial or sexist. Now that I'm aware of the picture's history, I agree that it was a poor choice back then but I disagree that us…

Not the person you’re replying to, and fuck me if I’m wading into the question of sexism, but professionalism and maturity are things. We get paid the big bucks now, we’re not snotty kids in our parent’s garage; a whole world of acceptable professional behavior goes along with that.

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#94

Post by cotelletta »

yawaramin wrote: post #21
iamleppert wrote: post #12

What’s wrong with female beauty? It’s not like it’s porn or a nude image. I’m not even a straight male but I can still appreciate female beauty and I don’t think it’s sexist. The photo is more artistic than anything. I wonder if the same people who complain about this photo lodge similar complaints when they visit art museums that have female nudity in oil paintings or nude female sculptures? I know nudity and even a…

Because it's not about you. It's about the women who see the image, understand its history, and see it as another reminder of how tech is not just male-dominated but thoughtlessly so (having Playboy issues lying around in the research lab) and where women are literally reduced to objects. From the article: > “As silly as it sounds, they were surprised she was a real person,” he told me. Women notice stuff like that,…

So you're saying women are insecure and easily triggered, offended by sexuality, and need people like you to stand up for them, got it.

But seriously, why don't you tell that minority of women who complain about this that it's not about them either?

Btw, the article claims that the perception of computing changed from menial labor to a cerebral activity for men. But surely the actual content of the field changed the same way, through 5 decades of exponential acceleration and recursively bootstrapped tools?

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#95

Post by mial »

underwater wrote: post #86
BurningCycles wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when my two sisters were plastering their walls with very good looking males to which they masturbated, it was making it harder for me as a male to be percieved as being equal ? Or the fanservice aimed at females in current-day shows like Riverdale where these hot guys throw off their shirts at the hint of an opportunity ? This idea that it is somehow wrong to appreciate and find pleasure in the physical appearanc…

Fair question. I would say the primary difference is that in most workplaces men are seen as being competent, and being male is not a disadvantage or put you in a minority. There are undoubtedly professions where stereotypes about men would be harmful. For example if a man wants to become a flight attendant, nurse, or a school teacher. Also consider examples outside of work, like dating. The tall, handsome, muscular…

Actually, it turns out that even in woman-dominated professions, being a man is advantageous. [1]

[1] The Glass Escalator: Hidden Advantages for Men in the "Female" Professions https://www.jstor.org/stable/3096961

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#96

Post by Jare »

lelf wrote: post #88
rococode wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that just how language works? When a name doesn't suit your language's writing system it's natural to adapt it in a way that's more accessible. English simply doesn't have an acute accent. It's why people in English speaking countries are named Michael (or one of the 50+ alternatives) instead of the original מִיכָאֵל, or why BBC reports on Chinese President Xi Jinping instead of Chinese President 习近平.

But it’s completely fine/effortless to use it in English, it’s even part of latin-1. Fiancée résumé déjà vu touché.

I'm spanish, with dual keyboard layout which means easy access to deadkeys for those chars, and I don't even bother putting the accent in my own name when I'm writing English.

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#97

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

jordigh wrote: post #38

I feel that whenever Lena is mentioned, we should also give a shoutout to the researchers who were fed up with her and decided to use Fabio instead. https://arxiv.org/abs/1202.6429 What do you guys (yes, guys) think about making Fabio the standard image instead?

> What do you guys (yes, guys) think about making Fabio the standard image instead?

No objection here. Heck, make both the Fabio and Lena images part of the test image set so that everybody's happy (or at least equally unhappy).

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#98

Post by blub »

iamleppert wrote: post #12

What’s wrong with female beauty? It’s not like it’s porn or a nude image. I’m not even a straight male but I can still appreciate female beauty and I don’t think it’s sexist. The photo is more artistic than anything. I wonder if the same people who complain about this photo lodge similar complaints when they visit art museums that have female nudity in oil paintings or nude female sculptures? I know nudity and even a…

Americans are stuck up sexually, that's the gist of it.

There's also a clear trend in the US to get outraged at all sorts of injustices of the past, some real, some percieved.

It's shocking to me to see that white men - the very people who had a massive contribution to building America into what it is today - are given so much crap from pretty much everyone else.

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#99

Post by yawaramin »

v64 wrote: post #31
yawaramin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not about you. It's about the women who see the image, understand its history, and see it as another reminder of how tech is not just male-dominated but thoughtlessly so (having Playboy issues lying around in the research lab) and where women are literally reduced to objects. From the article: > “As silly as it sounds, they were surprised she was a real person,” he told me. Women notice stuff like that,…

I think it's important to keep in mind that Lena Forsen (and the other models of Playboy) made the decision to be photographed nude and to have those photos published as a creative expression. To portray the exhibition as exploitative robs them of their agency and demeans their decision.

The objection that people have is not to Lena Forsen having a modelling career, it's to the culture of non-inclusion created by NSFW images that make women uncomfortable.

Re: Finding Lena Forsen, the Patron Saint of JPEGs

#100

Post by yawaramin »

titanix2 wrote: post #84
yawaramin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19182950

So everything should be aseptised because a few women feel insecure when seing image of beautifuller ones? The real gender issue here lies in jealousy and the utterly harsh competition that runs in-between women.

It's not about insecurity when seeing 'beautifuller' women, it's about getting the impression that women are objectified in the workplace.
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